Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Laimbrane, May 15, 2014.
The logically equivalent statement is that two birds in the bush is worth one in the hand.
Well maybe not ALL of us...
Just people who actually watched the games.
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SVG loves Drummond. He will build around him.
Andre is coming off a year where he grabbed the 8th most offensive boards in history, and had historical TRB% ORB%.
As for the absurd comparison with Tyson Chandler, he scores more points (13.5 to 8.7) on a higher eFG% (.623 to .593) and has a higher PER (22.65 to 16.48). Tyson Chandlers TS% is higher because he can make free throws at a non embarrassing clip.
I'll forgive the want to see what some rookies can do, but lets clear the air, this draft is deep with talent, but not with studs. Wiggins is not LBJ2. Jabari Parker won't make us forget about anybody. Joel Embiid, right now, is Hasheem Thabeet. And it goes on and on. All of them are good players, none great. I wouldn't give up Drummond right now, even for the top two picks. He is possibly the most athletic centre in the NBA right now. He also happens to be remarkable talented to boot.
Plus minus? Are we serious here. He played on a losing team. Drummond isn't Hakeem. He won't shake and bake to the rim. He is DeAndre Jordon on crack, lets nobody pretend otherwise. We will never see him stroking 30 foot fade aways like Dirk. Probably never see him put people in a spin cycle. But we will see him dunk on everyone in the league, pick pocket guards on the perimeter and be the leading man in transition. How many centres have ever been that combination?
Right now, Drummond is worth more than you think. He is in exulted company with his rebounding and general efficiency.
Drummond has excellent character as well. He has progressed significantly.
Rargh... I feel like I'm going into Lee territory attacking a guy that doesn't deserve attacking, but it's the offseason and I'm feeling like embarking on some hopeless battles.
Let's set aside for the moment that he's good. We know he's good. He's very good. As you say, he has an historically high rebounding %. He's capable of those pocket-pickings. (Now that I think about it, he should be the one guarding the perimeter, not Monroe.)
That being said, his deficiencies are noticeable and they are a problem. If he never shoots above 50% FTs, he will be a liability at the end of games. If he never develops his ability to maintain his concentration and focus, he'll continue to be a negative on defense.
And as far as +/-, he did hurt the team. While he was able to rebound well, he was a revolving door at times on defense. Whether it was because of a lack of teaching or whether he just didn't care, he positioned himself poorly. He bites on fakes and he gets caught standing around watching.
And all of that is normal for someone his age, especially when a guy that hasn't been actually taught. But his ability to rebound the basketball is not the same thing as the ability to prevent other teams from scoring; he did the former very well but was subpar at the latter. Now, I suspect that he will learn to be that defensive threat, but it's no sure thing. And meanwhile, the team is building around a player that plays the same position as the second-best player on the team.
Now, I'm not normally an advocate of trading a dime for two nickels, but this isn't a normal situation. If SVG feels that Monroe and Drummond won't work together, then it just may be the case that what he can get in return for Drummond will make the team better than what he would get in return for Monroe (or Smith). That's the biggest issue here - what makes the team better?
Let's set aside the things he does well. After that, you're left with a player who doesn't do anything well. Why would we want to hold on to a player like that? You're really making me see the light.
I'm starting to think the Bulls were stupid not to trade Jordan. Think of the haul they could have gotten for someone didn't even have an outside shot?
The only time his FT shooting has been an issue is when his coach made it one. This "doom" has been predicted since he started producing.
I did some digging through the box scores after your post earlier today about how he couldn't be effective for anything more than 30 minutes a night.
In April he had a 5 game stretch where he played more than 40 mpg in 3 of the games.
In back to back games (I've heard those are tiring.) he went for 23 and 18 in 42 mins followed by going for 19 and 20 (13 d boards) in just over 40 minutes.
In the 5th game of that sequence (his 3rd game in 4 nights) he just eked out a double double in 42 minutes with 26 points and 26 rebounds playing against the guy who finished 4th in the MVP voting.
The Pistons have plenty of problems without us imagining new ones for them.
Look, to be fair, I don't completely disagree with you about the whole trading to make the team better. I'm not trying to make it out that Drummond is the best player on the planet, just that I don't think there is a trade out there which doesn't involve Detroit being severely disadvantaged.
Drummond's defense needs work. But it's just like people say, I'd rather try to teach someone shooting than athleticism. This applies to defense as well. But half of it is his instinct and half of it is the system. Keep in mind that Drummond's foul rate dropped substantially, so it's not like he just leaps around trying to swat everything anymore. He is progressing. Look at Serge Ibaka - in his first two seasons he would go for a block if a guy in the nosebleeds flinched. But now he is rightly considered the anchor of OKC's defense. It's not fair to expect a sophomore to be the leading guy on defense. He will get better especially under SVG.
I also disagree that Monroe is the second best player. Andre Drummond is. Josh Smith is the best player on that team when he finally decides to show up. He is also far more versatile.
Or imagine if Indiana traded Jonathan Bender...
Also, I wouldn't trade for Westbrook anyway
Why is Russell Westbrook considered elite? - Pounding The Rock
Thank you for the link, fun to read.
Would anyone trade him for the #1 pick? Be willing to trade him to be able to pick 1st in this deep draft. Be a tough call.
Ryen Russillo’s NBA Draft Confidential: Real Scouts on Wiggins, Randle, Embiid, and Parker «
Who would we draft? Embiid? Seems pretty stupid to me
I'm not convinced anyone in this draft is really that great.
That would be silly. He would be the first pick in this draft if he were in it. Now, the first pick and Waiters, on the other hand...
Why would the Cavs make that? They end up with Embiid (basically Drummond) + Waiters right now.
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