Win Now Vs. Developing Rookies

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by anakin, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,135
    Likes Received:
    448
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    Did the Bulls develop rookies while Jordan was there? Did they plan for the long range?? NO

    No one has developed a long term dynasty since the Celtics of Russell, and they lasted for a long time because he did. Same for Magic. Same for the Bad Boys. They only lasted until they got old or had salary problems. Who did Chuck Daly develop??

    Unless your rookie is of very high caliber, they don't play much until someone gets HURT.

    Amir, Maxiel and the like, will develope in one of two ways:
    1. Someone gets HURT and they have to play.
    2. In the NBDL - that's what its for.
    As long as the Piston's five stay healthy - AND THAT'S A VERY BIG IF - then the rookies will not play much, nor should they.

    This trying to play games with the minutes is ridiculous. No coach is going to go through those machinations. He's paid to WIN. Match-ups, fouls, etc. determine who plays. Not some dreamed-up-in-the-shower rotation.
     
  2. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,396
    Likes Received:
    10
    Location:
    Amish Hood
    Hey, quit talkin' about Lee like that... someone said he does his best work in the shower.... jess messin'...
    good points... I will say Rodman & Salley developed under Chuck... but they contributed quickly and left little doubt of their value.
     
  3. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,425
    Likes Received:
    424
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Have to stop and think about how a modern team developes. They slash payroll and go after FA's. Rookies are a bonus. Many times you develope them only to see some other team scoop them up.

    For example Okur. We developed Okur and now he is peaking in Utah.

    Say we choose to develope Acker. Whats the difference between grooming Acker for a 3rd guard vs signing one with the mid-level. Paying the same amount of money either way. And if Acker developes too much then he will want to leave for a starting spot.

    Developing rookies is only prudent if you expect to have an opening thats fits their level of talent in a year or 2. Thats why we still have Tay. Needed a starting SF and he worked out for the position.
     
  4. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    The problem with Win Now, don't play the rooks, is when you have rooks that are capable of helping you win now, but they're never given the chance. After watching Darko get his 4 blocks last night, and do a decent job covering Yao, I have to believe that he could have helped us win last year. But LB doesn't trust rooks, and he gave the 4th big minutes to Darvin.

    Same situation this year with Acker. Lindsey looked much better yesterday, and hopefully he'll continue to improve. But if there is any chance that Acker could help us win now, this year, then he should be given more minutes to get him ready for the playoffs.

    What if RC had given Tay more minutes earlier? Maybe we beat Indy that year.
     
  5. DaviaG-Rap

    DaviaG-Rap First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    16
    Location:
    Bangor, WA
    Do you mean New Jersey?
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,559
    Likes Received:
    2,417
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Unless Tay could play the point for a gimpy Chauncey Billups, more PT wouldn't have made a difference against the Nets...
     
  7. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southfield, MI
    Developing Rookies, or Developing a Team. Which do you think Joe feels is more important. It’s time to see and accept things the way they are. Only USDA grade youth (See Tayshan) is gonna get the opportunity to play a major role around here, at least as long as Joe continues to fill voids with quality vets. It’s been an extremely successful approach thus far. As our stars become older and more highly compensated Joe may have to alter his strategy. I’m guessing he sees the game played out many moves ahead.

    There will be more fleecings to come.
     
  8. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    How long would a Wade or Bosh or Melo have lasted on our bench? Could things have gotten a little dicey? Good thing we didn't have a Micheal Jordan to find minutes for. Or a Shaq.
     
  9. bdubya

    bdubya Second Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    0
    The question could be rephrased as "Keep Winning Now vs. Hopefully Win Later", which IMHO makes it a LOT easier to answer.
     
  10. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Something tells me many of the participants in this discussion haven't watched all 48 minutes of a Bobcats or Hawks game recently.

    Youth is best served in half-empty arenas with short-timer coaches pacing nervously along sidelines. The turnovers, the blowout losses, the Serge Zwikker projects and the midseason call-ups of guys who were lighting up the Philippine League are all things we've been spared by and large. You won't hear me missing any of it.

    Fact is, it's a lot easier to talk about balancing championship play and player development than it is to do it. Even when you try, life is too unpredictable for guarantees. Think about the Pacers sacrificing one of their best shots at a title to free up room for Jonathan Bender, only to have the kid retire at 25.
     
  11. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Nier, that's why I don't get it. we have a deep team, the mistakes are cancelled by the other players. {who are just stingy and uptight, is that team play?} And you can measure a players true worth. I say Fino is gone next year. Someone will start that cat. Sure It's one thing to sag off a Zwikker but a Darko?
     
  12. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,158
    Likes Received:
    0
    All I can tell you is, truly world-class excellence in any organization is a very hard thing to come by ... and you don't hold onto it by catering to the weakest members of your team. (That includes Darko, who is proof of something that people seem to be perversely unhappy about: Every Piston is an NBA-caliber player, but not every NBA player can be a Piston.)

    On the bright side, chances are pretty good our young players will get a number of starts once the home-court races have been put to bed.
     
  13. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,404
    Likes Received:
    71
    Location:
    Windsor, Ontario
    Win Now AND Develope our Rookies

    or atleast Win Now without sacrificing our future.

    Don't tell me we can't do both. I don't believe it.
     
  14. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    516
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Detroit
    The "Win Now" club is distinguished from the "Win Later" club. Show me a championship contender who gives extensive minutes to a ROOKIE and I'll show you either (a) a team with an OUTSTANDING rookie; or (b) a team with a humongous hole that could only be filled by a rookie.

    Neither one of those examples fit the Pistons.

    The recipe for a championship in the NBA is NOT based on the draft. It is based on acquiring veteran players who know what they're doing. Rookies are best served by watching and learning; and playing like their career depends on it in "oppoutunity time." Smart rooks get this. Those who ain't with it move on. ;)
     
  15. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    Nier, that says it, after the home court races, you don't have to look at a guy that long. You know if you want to work him in.
    Hat, "extensive minutes" Darko was quoted at 5 to 7 min. He wasn't being greedy he just wanted to belong.
     
  16. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Beno Udreh, San Antonio has zero need to play him, yet they give him as minutes as they can find. Hasn't hurt them yet.

    As to smart rooks, Darko could have stayed with Detroit, worked his butt off in garabge time, and still not played anything other than garbage time. Come contract time, he'd be undervalued in the market.

    Now, by demanding a trade, he's on an up and coming team, being giving the oppourtunity to prove himself, and come contract time will be fairly valued.
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,559
    Likes Received:
    2,417
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Beno was absolutely ABUSED by Lindsey Hunter in the Finals. Pop never played him again after that. Brent Barry was used as a combo guard when Parker needed rest. But yeah, Beno did get lots of regular season PT and despite that, folded like a cheap lawn chair on the biggest stage.

    Beno is a bad example. He actually proves what many of us are talking about with regards to young players in high stakes situations.
     
  18. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    NY, NY
    Beno was abused, and the Spurs still won, and the Spurs still keep trying TO DEVELOP him. The Pistons did not make a full effort to develop Darko, Flipped benched him after ONE bad game. That is not how you develop rooks. And if the Pistons keep behaving like this, Delfino, Acker, Johnson, and JMax will soon follow the way of the Darko Demon, and we'll be left with "Buckets," Cato, Lindsey, and Davis as our bench for the next 5 years.

    A bunch of old guys, happy to collect a check, and hoping they don't get in the game.
     
  19. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,587
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Sterling Heights, MI
    actually the spurs aren't trying to develop him that much, his minutes have dropped in half this year. and darko had more than one bad game, he had several. new york was the capper.
     
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    571
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Los Lunas, NM
    So you cut off your nose to spite your face.
     

Share This Page