Who for new Center?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by DeetroitDynasty-e, Jun 5, 2007.

  1. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    For some of us these are not really news. There are others, however, that think that Nazr is not worth the pine he's sitting on. I always said that he's a serviceable big man for about 20 minutes a night. And that is all that's needed from him with Amir coming in and J-Max getting extended minutes.
     
  2. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I just don't see us going far with the center position as it is. Nazi is better than he showed but he would have to do a lot better to have an impact. Dyss cannot seemed to bring it every night. Sheed did it alone almost last year.

    The rookies can be of some help. But the rookies can't help on the East's big centers: Shaq, Z, Curry, Howard.

    Z bothered us enough last year, not a lot, but enough. He shouldn't have been a factor at all.

    Something has to be done before February or we will have the same problems again in the playoffs with bigger teams.
     
  3. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I couldn't agree more. Nazr has some value, even though he ain't "Ben." Personally I'd endorse a straight-up swap for the Wizard's Haywood who is at least a legit 7 footer. Otherwise sign C-Webb and use Nazr off the bench. Either way, our overall frontcourt ain't as weak as some think it might be.
     
  4. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The problem isn't the eight and six in twenty, it's that he can only play twenty because he gets into foul trouble. Giving up four or six free throws starts to negate the eight.

    If he can cut down on fouling, somewhere in the mid 20s minutes wise would be fine.
     
  5. DeetroitDynasty-e

    DeetroitDynasty-e First Round Draft Pick

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    The key to our center problem is the performance of our perimeter defense. If our perimeter guys work harder at fronting and staying with slashers then the fouls our center(s) accumulate due to them will be reduced. I think the last year has helped transition our players into knowing Big Ben isnt patrolling the paint anymore, and they need to put in an extra ounce of effort... If our guys get to be better at controlling the penetrators, we'll have a much easier time working with whoever is Center...
     
  6. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    I am not sure that this is an issue. Even though AJ is not heavy he can rebound with the best of them. Big Ben was really Small Big Ben. Not that AJ is Big Ben but he certainly plays "as long" as Big Ben did and probably just about as quick, though not near as good on defense at this point.

    In addition, with Flip using the zone a lot and variations thereof, I am not particularly worried about us not having a traditional big man. I think it is too premature too judge how the Pistons front line will work out next year until we actually see it in action.

    There are still over 3 months until the season starts. I am sure that the Pistons, with Cheikh now signed will be working with him on his weight and strength during those months. Like it has been written CheiKh's big challenge at this point is starting to play center like at 230 pound center and not a 190 lb center. The Pistons know this and I am sure they will be working with him on developing that aspect of his game.

    It would not surprise me to see him on the 12 man roster some time this year and getting some playing time.

    I think the question of whether the Pistons try and get another 7 footer will be based on the extent of Cheikh's development between now and Nov 1.

    :hoops:
     
  7. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Hatter, you know I respect your opinion. We go back aways, but Haywood is a joke. He'll block an occasional shot. He'll be motivated to grab an offensive rebound (defensive rebound are another question). I'm not thrilled with Nazr, but barring a blockbuster tarde, he's the best we're going to get. He's useful against the Shaqs and Big Zs of the world. If I were to trade him, then I would probably shoot for a guy like Diop. I know, good luck.

    The fact is this- we're not going to win a championship without major contributions from Maxxy and AJ, mostly AJ. Maxxy will do his job as a part of a championship rotation, but AJ's contribution will most likely be the factor that puts our guys over the edge. If he can't bring it, then Joe will have to pull off a miracle trade like he did for Sheed. Personally, I don't see us having the assets to swing that.

    Possible exception- Stuckey becomes an explosive force off of the bench.

    As I see it, Joe's given us a vary competitive team, with the possiblity of a championship if we can get some internal development. It's probably the best he can do.

    Nazr was a championship center. Too bad we don't have Tim Duncan.
     
  8. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    J-train I ain't really endorsing Haywood. Just throwing a name out there that might work salary/talent-wise. I suppose it's arguable whether Nazr is a better option than Haywood, but I wouldn't mind Diop either.

    Basically, I'm still on the C-Webb train while Samb develops.
     
  9. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Buddha Fan and others,

    I hope that Aj and Maxiel and the two draft picks work. I am as optomistic as the next person. Aj has a ton of athleticism. Maxiel is tough but he wasn't totally ready last year in the playoffs.

    As of now, I can't say we are on track for a long playoff run next year. Too many ifs and our competition will probably be better. We may play younger. We may have picked up some quickness in the back court. This would all help. But the center position does not look strong.

    I am not worried much about the regular season but come playoff time. Nazi did not move well last year and got into a lot of foul trouble early. To me, those were not good signs. Yes, the perimeter d efense can only be better. It was very poor the last year or two.

    I don't think that Cleveland would have beaten us last year if we locked down on Z. We let him get away from us here and there enough to give them some offensive help. At some point in the playoffs, we will have to body up either Howard, Shaq, Z and probably Curry. Sheed will get in foul trouble if he is asked to do it. Dice can't do it. Hard to envision Aj or Maxiel solving this problem which will likely arise in the playoffs.

    I suspect that we will have to act before February.
     
  10. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I'm going against popular opinion here, but I think Nazr is good enough. He has a decent 12 foot jump shot, which can clear a little space and he is good on the offensive glass. He blocks the occasional shot, and is a big guy to shoot over. If used correctly, he can contribute.

    I think it's up to the coach to figure out how to win with Nazr's particular skill set. Popovich did it. Can Saunders?
     
  11. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    The question that could be presented though, is did Pop figure out how to win with Nazr, or did the MVP and All-Star talent at Pop's disposal allow him to win despite Nazr?
     
  12. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I certainly respect the skill, focus, and professionalism of Tim and Tony, however, with Sheed, Rip, Chauncey, Tay, Max, Dice, and possibly the new guys, it's not as if the Pistons lack talent.

    I'm not arguing that Nazr is all world, either. I just think that he is exactly what "the system" called for, and it didn't work out. Now it's time to look at what he can do, and plan accordingly.

    I doubt that Heywood would be much of an improvement, and I don't think anyone else is available.
     
  13. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Last two year Nazr averaged 7 personal fouls and .5 of an assist and per 40 minutes.

    You can't have a guy on the court who gives up that many fouls, and can't pass the ball, it is a joke and a disaster.

    :hoops:
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's true BF, but he can shoot FTs pretty good for a center. :nerd2:
     
  15. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    In 2004-05 Nazr played 23 games for S.A. and they won the NBA Title

    In 2005-06 Nazr played 80 games for S.A. and they did not even get to the finals

    In 2006-07 Nazr played 0 games for S.A. and they won the NBA Title.

    Notice a pattern there?

    If anything they might have won all of those 3 years if they had another back center in 2005-06 instead of Nazr. They didn't let him go for no reason.

    Nazr Mohammed Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com

    San Antonio Spurs Team Index - Basketball-Reference.com

    :hoops:
     
  16. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I thought this thread was supposed to be "WHO" for new center. Opinions on Nazr seem to range from "get him outta here" to "luke-warm." Nazr ain't such a bad fella. But the only alternatives I've seen is Haywood, Thomas, Diop, Camby, and Pryzbilla.

    Did I miss anyone?
     
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yep. The less you play Nazr, the better your chances. Hopefully Flip Saunders has the intestinal fortitude to sit down his best big man for the good of the team.

    Oh wait, we did that last year...
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    He did play a lot better later in the season after he had lost the starting job. I especially recall one game when he really impressed me. I believe it was somekind of an over time game.

    Maybe he is a slow starter like McDyess. But he has to bone up more on defense even when the rest of his game is not there. Too many times he seemed to actually move out of players way when they took it inside. So maybe a coaching adjustment can help. Just tell him not to worry about foul trouble or whatever.
     
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Those stats are not indicative of anything. Also, who says that Nazr needs to start? Bring him off the bench against the 2nd unit. He's not bad.
     
  20. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    I recall this. I also recall feeling that "our guys will be allright" early in the season after seeing Nazr play "pre-Webber." He certainly stopped the bleeding from the loss of Ben. But he ain't never been "Ben."

    Could be. If Nazr could bulk up and get a mean streak he might become a younger version of Dale Davis. Ok...ok; I got a little carried away there. But Nazr as our "fifth big" = strong bench. Joe can afford to be patient.
     

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