what the Heat title could mean for the NBA and the Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TWOTIMESRALPHI, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    195
    Maybe. But I don't think I am going out on the limb that much. Normal development from here is all it would take for Monroe and just a bit more than normal development from Knight. Monroe will be better than Bosh. He can already do damaged inside something that the OKC front line couldn't do. And Knight has more upside that a lot of point guards: I'd take him over Conley, Lawson, the Indiana guards, the Philly guards and so on. Knight's shot will get good, his drive will get better, he can play hounding defense and most important, he has all these skills in combination which most point guards do not have.
  2. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    195

    Ernie, Monroe is just learning how to play defense and is on a team that played no defense last year. Monroe can move--at least for a big and he is decent one on one for such a young player. But here is the key. Monroe can already score down low and cause problems down low--something totally lacking with the OKC bigs and a major problem in the future for that team. And he is already a better rebounder than a lot of bigs in the league. Monroe and Knight give the Pistons a real chance to escape the mediocrity of most teams in the league, even the hyped "winning" teams like Philly and Indiana. I wouldn't trade either for anybody on those two teams for example. Like I said, Joe should be smiling...
  3. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    387

    Yep, there are two misfits here (Stuckey and Knight) and JD has a big heart throb for both. What we seem to have is an approach that denies any strategy of team building...let us take the best available player. Please let me understand why the Spurs get rid of of George Hill for the draftee Kawhi Leonard swap. Perhaps the Spurs know what they want and they go after it.

    Can we begin to understand value (never a big thing coming out of Detroit)...you be the judge:
    • Ben Gordon has a guaranteed income of $37, 200,000 (off the bench)
    • CV has a guaranteed income of a lowly $24,180,000 (almost off the bench)
    • Jonas Jerebk0 has a guaranteed income of $18,000,000 (off the bench)
    • Jason Maxiell (who would be nuts to op-out) is good for $10,000,000 (historically a bench player)
    • Tayshaun Prince has a guaranteed income of $28,000,000 (2014/2015 and a starter)
    • Rodney Stuckey has a guaranteed income (2014/2015) of 25,500,000 (a starter)
    Please wake me up when this is all over.
    BallDon'tLie, S.J., Nemo and 2 others like this.
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Very well put.

    Bynum isn't owed as much as these guys lump sum, but he makes a lot for a 3 PG. (He would be perfect on an older/bigger picture team like the C's or Spurs.)
  5. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Vienna
    Of course there can be no objective criteria - I would rather say you know a player could be part of a big 3 ensemble if you see him. There are the obvious - , Carmela, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Dwight, Rose, Durant, Westbrook, Nowitzki. And then, you have the borderline-big 3, with players such as Amar'e, Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, Blake, Ginobili and the likes.
    I wouldn't go for Finals-stats. I would rather go for players that can change the game by themselves alone and carry a team on their back to a victory. I know Bosh is borderline here, as he is the "weakest" among them, while certainly being better than most of the "weakest" in any other big 3 you mentioned. But still, how many teams are there in which Bosh would be the 3rd scoring option??? That's why there is no point mentioning his finals stats.
    Yet, I do not say that the Heat or any other 3 headed monster is unbeatable. I hope not, otherwise we all could swith off our TV screens and play pac man. However, since the Heat won and if they keep on winning, they could provide a role model for the upcoming future.

    Why? All of the players mentioned (except for some Indiana guards maybe) where way better in the beginnings of their careers - just look at how much time Lawson got and what he did with it and what Knight did with his minutes - he received tons of them and yet, his impact was minimal. He has to improve alot to fulfil the expectations many of the people in here have in him when they wear their Pistons-goggles.
    Nemo likes this.
  6. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,008
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    I'd love to have Conley or Lawson. I'd rather stick with Knight over the Indy and Philly guards.
  7. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,228
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    I kinda feel that Miami has really only one superstar...................currently LBJ...........
    Wade is getting older and unable to bang around like he used to............he's now on the downslide.
    Bosh reminds me of Laimbeer...........Ok numbers for a center, loaded with intangibles, but not a superstar.

    These guys were down every series and had to fight back to win every time. Even OKT in a 5 game loss put up an epic battle
    for 4 of those games........mistakes cost them dearly. Miami just played hard and used good team defense. They're closer to the 2004
    Pistons than we'd like to think. Several times during the series, I thought I heard Hamilton say, "They just flipped the switch".

    My point is that these guys may not win another ship cause their victory was actually a close call.
    BallDon'tLie likes this.
  8. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    Bill Simmons made the point that Dwyane Wade's injury issues hindered him to the point that he had to take a more supporting role and that's what allowed the Heat to become more balanced and go on this run. Not that he was trying to say that they couldn't replicate their success with a healthy Wade, but it was an interesting thought.
    MSU.Prodigy, BallDon'tLie and S.J. like this.
  9. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I don't know if I'd go as far to say that Monroe can score down low, but I do think he'd have done better than the OKC bigs.
  10. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    117
    Location:
    Vienna
    very interesting read in the Economist:
    Player movement in basketball: Blame the cap | The Economist
    Key message:
  11. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,413
    Likes Received:
    406
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    I would say don't worry about it because this is why they have a salary cap. Under the new CBA it will be increasingly hard to go over the lux tax. They will have a harder time finding the role players they need. I am not sure they could have won this without Battier and Miller, just like Boston could not win without Perkins. For all the hype on the Celts big 3 it has Rhondo keeping that team with a playoff pulse.

    This year I don't know if they would have beaten Chicago if Rose and Noah were not out.

    They still talk about the Spurs asterick title in 1998 well this is an asterick year too. Heat fans may hate it but LBJ and co will have to do it all over again - at least one more time, to quiet all the critics.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    This kind of reads like this tough new luxury tax is not going to deter teams as is rumored. Large or max contracts are limited while the teams dollar commitment is capped.

    That seems like a pretty good deal for the owners. Why people side or relate to them is beyond me.
  13. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    832
    If Detroit is going to go the Heat route, it needs to sign a guy like Lebron James, someone who is the best player of his generation. Think Zeller will be that guy?
  14. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    6,211
    Likes Received:
    1,111
    Location:
    Georgetown, KY
    Love this article. So true, when the best players cannot possibly be paid at their true value, they will find other incentives to choose certain destinations. The owners thought they could control movement by putting an artificial ceiling on player salaries, but in reality now they can now control movement even less than before.
  15. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2006
    Messages:
    2,720
    Likes Received:
    387
    This organization is drifting. The center has not held. The periphery has additions, but the mighty historic talent is gone. JD is too close and the acceptance of localized myth will lead to more uncoordinated drift (BenW and Tay). Perhaps some sort of regionalism as creative associations might help a needed activism. Detroit, like Cleveland, Toronto, Milwaukee and others are not like the East, South, Southwest and certainly not like the Miami's of this world. Get my drift?

    If you're being fastidious about Zeller...well, OK. I could be cute and respond that we lost our chance when we let Kwame Brown go. Then again, Zeller is no Kwame Brown. There is a very good chance that any center, if selected, would have every opportunity during the last half of the season in joining the starting five. It is also not beyond reach, that any person drafted at the nine spot (in any other position) could transplant any current Piston starter. How sad is that? Or, how wonderful?

    For JD, it comes down to who's left from the residual picks? This draft is a small party composed of one. Just one flagman set in his conspicuous routine waiting for the next train.
    BallDon'tLie likes this.
  16. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Gender:
    Male
    Rubbish. Shortened seasons are harder on players than regular seasons. The only people who argue this are the mindless critics. The Spurs deserved the 1998 title. The Heat deserved the title this year.

    If OKC had won, that statement never would have left your mouth. So I'm putting an asterisk next to it too.
  17. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,228
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Don't hold back...............tell him how you really feel................:)
  18. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    2,000
    Likes Received:
    1,087
    Gender:
    Male
    Sorry. Got up on my :angrysoapbox:

    But that is how I feel :6shoot:
  19. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    12,228
    Likes Received:
    1,475
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    I go with poor humor instead. :)

    Instead of saying, "The only people who argue this are the mindless critics."

    Try saying......."The only people who argue this also believe in Santa Clause"...........a much softer approach..............

    Instead of saying, "If OKC had won, that statement never would have left your mouth. So I'm putting an asterisk next to it too."

    Try saying......"If OKC had won, that statement never would have been made. So I'm putting an asterisk next to it too."

    The suttleness is still effective, but less caustic.

    You're an excellent poster, I appreciate your insights.
  20. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,413
    Likes Received:
    406
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Opinions vary. No need to be rude about it.

Share This Page