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what the Heat title could mean for the NBA and the Pistons

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TWOTIMESRALPHI, Jun 22, 2012.

  1. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Ok, it's over, the 3-headed monster dominated over Westbrook and Durant; and I think that has some serious implications for the league.
    Lebron finally got his ring; he couldn't do it with Cleveland since he didn't have the supporting cast he needed. He had good players (Big Z, Mo Williams, Shaq, Ben Wallace, albeit not all at the same time) around him, but no great players. With DWade and Bosh, he even had two great players next to him. I must admit that I was surprised that they didn't already win last year. But with the addition of Battier (THE glue guy in the league - great defender, clutch, high basketball IQ) and having played another year together, they seemed just so much better in this year's playoffs. They had their problems with the Celtics though.
    However, what does the Heat win mean?
    I would say it confirms a trend possibly already established by the Celtics when Garnett and Allen joined Pierce - i.e., putting several players of the NBA elite together in order to win it all. The days of teams with one or 2 elite players, like MJ and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq may be over. Also possibly the days of Spurs-like teams, i.e. deep, deep teams with several very very good players with one great player (Mavs with Dirk, Spurs with Duncan). 3 could become the new magic number.
    Thus, will players like Dwight Howard or Chris Paul go to teams where two superstars are already playing? Command a bit less money in order to compete? I think that is quite likely. If the Heat win consecutive titles, it could almost become inevitable.
    That would mean that the NBA - more than ever - would become some club of haves and have-nots. A few teams with 3 superstars and the great rest that tries different ways, like Denver or Philly with deep rosters and no superststars and no shot to win it all.
    The Pistons - well, there is no way on earth that they could bring players like Howard and Paul together. They will have to take the root via being lucky in the draft (probably not going to happen since they refuse to tank) or, more likely, the Philly route of having a bunch of good players.
    As a conclusion, while they might get back to competing soon, especially since teams like Orlando could lose their superstar and immediately become lottery teams, I don't see a championship coming for a loooooooong time...
     
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  2. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think that the rolpe players play a bigger role than Bosh or Wade in Miami's Championship.
    Battier, Miller last night and Chalmers all the series played impressive.

    I don't think that 3 stars, randomly, join forces and eventually they will end up with a ring. There must be excellent chemistry and the perfect role players to show up when you don't expect it.

    You have a team with 2 stars (and a half) in New York and we can see that not working.

    Miami's road this year was SO Easy but that's because Chicago was done after Rose's injury and because Dwight Howard was out with a injury too.

    I'm not saying that Orlando would have beat the Heat, but they would have giv them more problems that what Indiana did.

    I mean, Boston took them to a 7th game. I'm not saying Boston is a crappy team, but it was their last run and they almost beat them.

    Miami got it easy this time. Oklahoma beat San Antonio easely, but I know that in "the better of 14 games" (instead of 7) the Spurs would have won that.

    I mean, Harden played like he never did before, Ibaka Played like he never did before (11/11 FG). and Parker and Ginobili played REALLY bad in more than 1 - 2 games. (also Duncan in the last one if my memory doesn't fail)

    The finals was like the "Super Heat" with "luck" on their side, with Miller and Battier shooting threes. Chalmers making big plays and the usual Wade, usual Bosh and usual James around them.

    Their defense was good, but against a team that doesn't have plays to run (Brooks sucks.. Spoelstra too). The game plan was "Westbrook play" "Durant play" and maybe sometimes a "Harden Play".

    Harden was off. Westbrook had good games and also Durant, but 2 players can't beat the "Super Heat" that I described.

    The Heat earned that ring, I have respect for that. I congratulate them and their all-time fans. But that doesn't keep me for telling what I saw this playoffs and finals.

    Going back to what you say about the 2 stars team or the "deep rosters"-team . I can see that still working. The Spurs championship have a BIG three too. Duncan, Parker and Ginobili.

    The Bad Boys were some kind of big 3 too.. Laimbeer, Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars. (yes There were also excellent rotation players that we all know, but there were also 3 stars)

    Dallas had a star in Dirk, but one of the best point guards of the last 20 years in Jason Kidd, a hot shooter in Jason Terry, and an impressive defender in Tyson Chandler. It was not a Big 3, but those pieces can't be ignored.

    _______________________________


    The big problem is that I firmly believe that they will repeat the next year.
    Yes. They will win again next year. There is no team in the East to challenge them at least to a game 7..

    Chicago? I don't think that Rose will be back before january, and maybe he won't be back like the "MVP Rose" that we all know.. maybe his game suffers some changes. Who knows?

    Orlando is a mess. Howard might go, Nelson is worse than Stuckey. Turkoglu has nothing left to play for, etc...

    Boston?.. Nobody can tell you what is going to happen with them! Garnett is thinking retirement. Bass will test free agency, also Jeff Green.

    New York? The only chance I see is if Nash goes there and put things in some kind of order.

    Indiana? Only If somehow they end up with the same team that they have this year and add some star like Howard.

    Philly? I don't see changes coming there. matter of fact, I read about trades involving Iguodala.

    Atlanta? Maybe if magically Deron Williams Signs there.. with Him, Josh Smith and Al Horford you might have some good core to compete.

    Washington? I can see them reaching the 7th or maybe 8th playoff spot next season. They have young players and a really good team with that trade a few days ago. But even if they reach the playoffs, they have no chance to go against Miami.

    Toronto? Some say they are in a position worst than ours.

    Brooklyn Nets? .. Only If Deron Williams and Gerald Wallace resigns there and somehow they end up with Howard and some medium player through free agency. (plus Brook Lopez and the young kids who are already on the team)

    Cleveland? they got that Irving boy who play really good. And the 4th pick this year could be Barnes or Kidd Gilchrist. But I don't see them being much better than what I projected about the Wizards..

    Anyone of you can see what I'm saying.. If the pieces doesn't fall as they should, Miami will be repeating next year. Not because they are 3 big stars in a team. But because the other 15 teams in the conference sucks or have injury problems.
     
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  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    I don't see the heat affecting the Pistons at all. We never had a shot at LeBron. Our team fell to earth for all the wrong reasons...lack of motivation, coaching, drafting, free agents. The rebuilding of the Pistons will take time, but talk of playing in the ECF again may not be heard around these parts for a long time.

    The Pistons and Detroit can vie for quality free agents and draft good players...........we just need to get over the hump that JD gave to us............thanks Joe.

    The biggest movers and shakers of the NBA in the last 25 years was the Dream Team.
    They got international fans...........and players involved..........that event changed the NBA more than the decision.
     
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  4. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I think the big 3 factor is over-hyped. The key to this is Miami's front office and ownership. Miami committed to a title like very few franchises have and convinced players to buy into it. Getting Lebron was a coup. They essentially convinced the king to be Wade's flunky. After falling short, they upgraded key positions with guys proven to make plays. The salary was like $80 mil and around $9 over the luz tax threshold. Imagine if Dumars committed $10 million in lux tax for a bona fide all star instead of Arvis Hayes or Mo Evans or whom ever else sucked ass at the end of the bench. But I digress, Lebron took a lot of flak for abdicating his rulership to join the Miami chorus line but he also put the team first.

    What I'm saying is 3 stars colluding to join the same team doesn't cut it. You need a strong front office with a committment to winning...that can sign 3 stars...:P
     
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  5. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Well, the obvious has come to pass. Yes, the Celtics broke the system when they created Team NBA 1. Le Bron said openly that that gave him the idea which lead to NBA Team 2 (the Heat). Yes, New York has had trouble but creating a team works. That leaves less space for the "other" franchises. The experts and writers don't want to say this.

    Now, the irony is that Heat is not a great team because of the cap limitations so it is not impossible to knock them off down the road. The Heat are not as good as virtually any championship team of the 2000s.

    The Pistons have as good a chance as any to enter into that restricted space at the top because of two lucky drafts (Monroe and Knight). It was absolutely the wrong thing not to tank but the results of the draft were as if the Pistons did tank. A second irony. They got two top five picks in reality. As I watched the playoffs, I kept thinking, wow, in about two years, Knight and Monroe will be better than most of the players who anchor teams like Philly and Indiana and Memphis and Atlanta, etc. SA and Boston are too old. There will be, undoubtedly, an Team NBA 3 somewhere and Dallas and the Lakers and Boston (if the league needs them to stay up there) can always find ways to bounce back. But out of the "others" category, the Pistons have a good chance to escape Washington Generals territory. And they have a coach.
     
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  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't see any significance of the Heat winning.
    The Heat are not a well oiled machine like some of the great teams that have won multiple championships. They are very top-heavy and that's not a sustainable model. Their 2 best players don't compliment each other very well and to me, that's a problem. I think they are a one-time champion unless they make major changes to the "big-3" roster model.

    A lot of things had to come together for the Miami Heat to get over the hump this year:
    1. LeBron became the best player in the league. He's added the ability to post-up to his game and has also increased his effort on defense. (props to Lebron James)

    2. Their opponents sucked at the right time. If the OKC that beat the Spurs would have showed up against the Heat, there's no way that Miami wins. I know that some will argue: "but Miami did things to make OKC play bad" - that's NOT what I saw. I saw an OKC team that repetedly missed WIDE-OPEN shots throughout the series and made a TON of un-forced errors.

    3. Officiating favored the Heat and OKC didn't play-over that. I'm not saying that the refs gave the series to Miami but they were one of many contributing factors. Dallas was able to overcome this last year. Past Piston teams have made a living playing against the refs. OKC couldn't find a way to do this. I don't blame the refs - I blame the Thunder.

    The NBA salary stucture is only going to make it harder to go out and "buy" a team like this. I look at teams like OKC and others who have talent AND financial versitility as having much brighter futures that Miami. The "big three" model is a trend and I don't think it will last. I believe that teams that are well-coached; have talented players who compliment each other; and play "team" basketball will win more often than lose against artificial rosters that are constructed for the short term. If I didn't believe this, I guess I'd find another "favorite" sport to follow.
     
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  7. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Heat will absolutely have problems creating a dynasty. Wade is still an awesome player but his game is alot about athleticism and he's 30 and he's not getting better. Because of the salary structure the Heat is stuck with the big three and the future drop off in Wades production has to be matched by improvement from the others. As great as James has been playing it's hard to see him getting alot better, he's probably somewhere close to his career peak right now, and I don't see Bosh stepping up and taking that much bigger role. The role players they had this year where quite productive and with the salary limitations it's hard to see them getting alot better guys. And it's not like they went 16-0 this year (sure, Bosh was injured but they didn't look like an unstoppable force with him either). There is a decent chance they'll get one or two more 'ships and they'll enter next season as the primary favourites but they sure won't come easy.
     
  8. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    ultimately, from reading your reactions, it comes down to the question if the HEAT will serve as a role model or not. To me, given the constant and probably more than ever present mocking of great players without rings, there are less incentinves to build up one s own dynasty, MJ-style, than ever. Superstar players feel pressure and give this pressure back to their GMs, just look at how Dwight Howard, Deron Williams or Chris Paul acted recently. So, unless their GMs act quick in order to put a more than decent squad together, these players could decide to take the "easier" route and join with other superstars. In today s world, everything is about the momentum, no one thinks about the long term, thus, player want success and they don t want to wait like the Boston squad did.
    I was not trying to imply that the HEAT will build a dynasty (although I do think that this is likely), but saying that they provide a role model on how it could be done for other superstars.
    SJ, about the big 3; yes, there are a couple of teams with several really good players. However, Dallas last year or San Antonio do not have big 3 like Miami. Kidd was old, Terry is not big like Wade or LBJ and neither are Parker or Ginobili. There are big gaps between these guys. That s why I am emphasizing that the Heat are currently the only team with legitimate 3 really great players of which each one of them could easily be the anchor of almost every NBA team. Now imagine a team with Ginobili, Parker, Terry, Chandler or whoever as its core player.
    If the touchdown passes between LBJ and Wade are not a sign of complimenting each other well, I don t know what it.
    I never bought the Brevin Knight hype (yet). He didn t do anything great and if you look at his per minute stats, he was awful. Still a big question mark behind him.
     
  9. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    The problem with building a MJ style dynasty by yourself is that there isn't that many MJ out there.
     
  10. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Now that 4 of the top 5 picks from the 2003 have rings, the so called pressure will be Carmelo to come thru in the next couple of seasons.

    Looks like his current supporting staff of Amar'e, Chandler, JLin, BDiddy are a player short, so can management get another mini superstar or better yet Bosh version of the Big 3 to join this group or even a coach to bring the spotlight back to the big apple!!

    The Pistons played well down the stretch...well at least a little over .500 ball. The on the job training that Moose and Knight gained contributed to both their individual success as well as the teams mini success.

    Looks like there is some big debate on whom the Pistons will pick next week. Joe has a bunch of them coming in Monday for the final workout. Whomever he chooses needs to play and not be regulated to the bench for most of the season like Daye , Max and Amir were in their first couple of seasons.

    The free agents signed a few years ago from UConn have been abysmal and I agree there is no more named players with Mad skills that are willing to drop anchor in Motown on a rebuilding team...unless they just want to get paid ..like the 2 UConn guys...:cheeky-smiley-012:
     
  11. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    CarMElo will never win a championship.
    ...ever!
     
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  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'll say it right here...Darko will get a ring before Carmelo.
     
  13. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm gonna go out on a limb and top you on this one with TWO players - James Jones and Kendrick Perkins will their rings before Carmelo.
     
  14. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Eddy Curry.
     
  15. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Game, set and checkmate, basketbills.
     
  16. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This guy got 2 before James, Bosh....,and yes Melo.[​IMG]
     
  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Dre wins.
     
  18. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's probably got him as a Facebook friend also.
     
  19. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    It's killing me... who is this guy?!
     
  20. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    But as I said before, the Team NBA model works. Better to look it in the eye and deal with it. Boston beat the Pistons in 2008 coming from nowhere with that "made up" team. Sure, the Pistons were aging badly by then. But the experts said back then that Boston would need time. Rivers said we have to win now and they did. Miami needed just one year. And they have already been to two finals. It worked. It would have been easier but Bosh was hurt during a stretch of games. The experts do not want to keep fans informed about the real, contrived structure of the NBA. So far, New York has not worked. But there will be another Team NBA coming. The salary structure helps by not letting these team NBA's completely load up. That is where the Pistons have a small space to move. With those two lucky drafts, they have two players who may reach star 1 (Monroe) or star 2 (Knight) level. And they have a trump with their coach. Brooks was helpless in the finals round where the real coaches stand up. The Miami coach is just a tad better but Riley has his back.

    The Pistons can move past the Indiana's, Philly's and so on. Ask yourself, you would you want from those other teams including Atlanta, Memphis, etc. to be on your team in 2 years over having Monroe and Knight? If Joe has anything left, he is smiling while watching these playoffs. Monroe will be better than any big playing in the last two rounds (Duncan played well but is nowhere near the Duncan of 2005 that beat the Pistons). Monroe is not at a LeBron or Durant level in terms of impact of course, which makes a Piston comeback no sure thing, but Monroe is a piece that those top teams do not have and will not be able to get because of cap space. The Pistons will reach mid-pack fairly easily as many also-ran franchises do. The question is can the Pistons vault into that ever narrowing elite space. I think they can.
     

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