What is Tayshaun's going rate?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Zoso, Sep 7, 2005.

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Is Tayshaun Prince worthy of a 5 year $45-50 million dollar contract?

  1. Yes

    52 vote(s)
    70.3%
  2. No

    12 vote(s)
    16.2%
  3. Not sure

    10 vote(s)
    13.5%
  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Lots of people thinking this is overpaying would make great Palace employees, but not necessarily great NBA GMs.

    We've terribly fortunate to have one of the best/cheapest squads in NBA history. You cannot compare a pre-championship CB/Ben/Rip deal with post championship re-signings.

    If any of Ben, Rip or CB went on the market today, they would be worth substantially more with Rip and CB approaching max deal territory.

    The situation JD is faced with is retaining talent. Who can you sign to replace Sheed? I'm not saying there are not better players, but who is available as a free agent?

    Same thing with Tayshaun. On the open market, he would get a comparable deal (if not better) and who could you sign (that is available) to replace him?

    That is the route the Clippers have historically taken. Develop talent and then refuse to pay to keep it. Result? No playoff appearances in over a decade.

    We are at or very near the salary cap threshold right now. In the modern NBA with the way free agency works, it is almost impossible to field a championship caliber squad under the cap unless you have several underpaid assets.

    You may not agree with the contract amounts some players have been paid, but it is a seller's market for elite talent. You either pay, or you pray.

    IMO, Joe has done an excellent job of making good trades (consolidating talent into players of real value, Sheed) or offering no-trade guarantees (Dice, CB) to keep salaries and competitiveness in balance. This is the thing he absolutely excells at. He manages business and winning.
     
  2. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Pay or pray

    Yeah, pray that your draftees make a big impact and soon. And this rarely happens.
     
  3. Tyskillz

    Tyskillz First Round Draft Pick

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    mike curry???

    Yo, what is the deal with sporting a pic of arguably the WORST starting small forward in NBA history as part of your handle sir? Michael Curry is the epitome of GARBAGE in my humble opinion and I thanked the good Lord above when we finally found a sucker (toronto, lol) to take him off our hands. I'm sorry dude I just don't get it....
     
  4. KP

    KP First Round Draft Pick

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    Does Tay want to sign?

    No question he'll get some crazy money offers next summer - if he has another positive growth year. Someone will offer him more than he'll get by resigning with Detroit.

    But what if he doesn't have a great year? What if he gets hurt? What if he has to go to a losing team, and never again makes it back to the playoffs? Is he thinking about this? What's a "no trade" clause worth to him?

    The answers to these questions could cost him millions of dollars. I'm hoping that Joe can lay out a proposal that convinces Tay that staying with the Pistons is a solid economic and professional decision. And I'm hoping that the contract will be less than $45-50 million.

    We can't end up with a team of $10 million players and expect to be able to continuously add the required new talent that keeps us competitive with the title contenders. Or maybe we can... what do I know, really.
     
  5. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Uncle Ty, I'm sporting a picture of a guy that's worse than Michael Curry and nobody seems to mind.
     
  6. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Tays pay day

    First - we don't really know what that number means. That may represent a contract plus the incentives that can be earned for post season activity and personal accreditations earned.

    Second, he's a physical anomoly. You can't logically compare him to many other SF's cause he brings intangibles they don't own (like total arm span width). Then you have to factor in the championship and play-off experience. It has a tangible value attached to it. How that translates relative to a hard money on a GM's scale is likely predicated on what that GM already on his roster in both "talent" and "experience under fire". One guys goose is another guys gold.

    A interesting excercise would be to take the total payroll figures from top 12 teams in the league last season. Purely on last seasons playoff seeding it would look like this, East’s 1-6, Miami, Detroit, Indiana, Boston, Wash and Chicago. In the west 1-6, it’s San Antonio, Phoenix, Seattle, Dallas, Houston and Sacramento.

    Then you go to this sites "Hoops Resources" page, visit Storytellers or Patricias website. Get the salary numbers for the starters.

    Then you add up what the starting 4 (not including Prince) will earn. Sheed $10,260,000, Rip 8,051,948, Ben 6,000,000, C-Note 5,909,800. Subtotaled thats comes to $30,221,748, now divide that by 4 and they average $7,555,437.

    Dumars doesn't do flat deals, so whatever tay gets will be tiered, like 7mil, 7.5, 8, 8.5, 9, 9.5 etc. The sum total being whatever the final number is after those are all added together.

    So a starting deal for 7.5mil seems fair. It would only "equalize" the playing field at todays standard within the Pistons framework, (it's a subjective exercise).

    Then you look at what he's been getting without squawking, last year it was 1 mil. I think everyone would agree that's gross underpayment.

    So in my mind, a deal starting at slightly above 8mil for year 1, wouldn't be out'a line. Part is payback. Part is looking forward. It's really just a little over this years average for Pistons starters.

    I really don't see the current issue being over what he's payed in the opening year anyway. It's what he's being paid in year 5 or 6 that matters. That's when the number is considerably larger and the contribution should be too.

    Now if somebody wants to take that same exercise and expand on it, take each team listed aboves starting five guys, add their salaries together and divide by 5, you'll get a static industry standard on value for a league starter.

    Then you'll have a more objective basis for figuring out what salary number is fair.

    (But - who said life is fair :eyebrows: )
     
  7. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Example

    Tay gets 45mil for 5 years.

    Year 1 - 8
    Year 2 - 8.5
    Year 3 - 9
    Year 4 - 9.5
    Year 5 - 10
    = $45mil

    Without any incentives. I don't think that deal is out'a line.
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Amen!

    Ye speakth great truth Micro, King of the Pistons Forum!
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    More like a Darth Vader than Emperor Palpatine but thanks for the vote of confidence nonetheless. :)
     
  10. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Is 45 to 50 million out of line for Tay? That is a yes and no answer in my opinion. Tay can get 50 mill or more easily on the open market. If Tay were on another team where he was asked to be the focal point of the offense and a leader on defense I would say Yes. Is Tay worth 45 to 50 million on the Pistons team I would have to say no based on his current production. Tay is maybe the 4th scoring option on our team right now. He started to come out of his shell after the allstar break and was the best Pistons player during the second half of the season he still is not consistent enough and disapeared when it really counted.
     
  11. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Good post Tashawn... agree 150%
     
  12. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Prince invaluable

    Prince's upside is so huge and his blend of talent so unique (defense pule scoring) that his value can't be quantified in today's ridiculous market. Pay him to keep him.
     
  13. TWOTIMESRALPHI

    TWOTIMESRALPHI Team Captain 3x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Name 3 SFs making less that have Tayshaun's credentials (2 championship appearances as a starter) and with his upside. He's still young and will be in his prime when this contract ends.

    Please remember that he has been playing for less than $2 million a year while being a key contributor on this squad.

    Anyway, you need to come up with 3. Can you do it?

    If you do, I will find you lots of Michael Curry pictures.
     
  15. max

    max All-Star

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    Can he?

    Can Tay be the 1st offensive option on a team? He has never had to do that before. Tay's 2nd half of the season play was based on him not being the focal point of the offense. Seemed to me most of his shots were opportunistic shots like wide-open 3's, taking an open lane, those kinds of things.

    And for a defensive stopper. Wade was too quick. He let Ginobili get off for 3 of the games.
     
  16. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Tay was very agressive in the post and used a lot of moves. That one move when he embrassed Lebron with in the post was a classic and should be right up there with the Tay block on Reggie Miller. Tay also drove to the basket with authority during the second half of the season and made alot of great plays for his teammates.

    After the Philly series he disappeared. I don't know if it was the ankle or maybe fatigue from playing alot of minutes. The only think that I don't like is the inconsistent play. Tay can go 7 or 8 games and barely be noticed on the court. Also at times he can be very passive which hurts the offense by not taking shots when he is open. I still stand firm that the dollar figuire is a little high for the Pistons team but looking around the league Tay would get more money.
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    1st option

    Tay has been the first option on offense in the playoffs with < 2 minutes left as a rookie. That's pretty good.
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    game

    Yes but on a gamely basis Tay is not the 1st option and he rarely commands double teams. How would he play if he were the 1st option on a bad team?

    Anyway, I agree that Tay has to be re-signed even if it is for 50 mil over 5yrs. We need him. To the Pistons he is worth 10mil with the only alternative of having to re-tool the 3-spot which is not an option at this point. And his friggen Agent knows it!!!

    And yes Tay was injured in both the Miami and SAN series. He had a shoulder problem that developed near the end of the season and never had a chance to recover from it given his heavy PT. He also had a minor ankle sprain in the Miami series.
     
  19. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    4 years at the University of Kentucky as the 1st offensive option. Took him about 3 years to really settle in, but then he was almost unstoppable.
     
  20. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Kentucky video?

    Anyone have a video clip of the Kentucky game where Tay was on fire? I saw it once and haven't been able to track it again. Tay gets so hot he steps up and shoots a couple feet back from the 3 point line!
     

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