What about signing Josh Smith and Andre Iguodala??

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,732
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    In our Championship year, Ben Wallace shot .490 from the line and missed 1.8 FT per game.
    Sheed shot .704.
    Tay was at .766.
    Rip .868
    CB .878

    Let's say that our theoretical team with Iggy and Smith gets as many FT attempts per game as those 5 and that they do it in the same proportion per position.

    PG: 5.9 FTA/game
    SG: 4.4
    SF: 1.7
    PF: 2.5
    C: 3.6

    The 2004 team generated 13.8 FT makes per game from the starting 5.

    The 2014 team would generate the following on the same number of attempts and in the same proportion:

    Calderon: 5.2
    Iggy: 3.2
    Smith: 1.7
    Monroe: 1.7
    Drummond: 1.3

    Total = 13.1

    If I didn't screw up the math, that theoretical lineup would sacrifice 0.7 points per game to our 2004 Championship squad. If Drummond raised his FT % to 55%, it would be break even.


    After watching Kobe stymie Lebron last night, I'm leaning toward having both Iggy and Smith with Monroe and Drummond behind them to be a Heat stopping team built to get past game 6 of the ECF. I would say that those 2 guys are the top 2 guys you'd select going forward if you wanted a 2 way player with Lebron containment ability.

    On offense, you have to gear the team to run off of the turnovers that they would create and to rely on Calderon and Monroe to make something out of the half court game. Calderon seems like a perfect PG to get past the Heat since they are weak at that position offensively and since Jose turns it over so infrequently (so that they have to score on our set half court defense).

    If it doesn't work, either of the new guys would be tradable and we'd blame it on lack of shooting, not disappointment in our FA pickups.
     
  2. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    891
    It's not the most objective list on the planet, but TSN has him ranked as the 12th best player in the league... I would think the top 20 would all deserve max contracts.
     
  3. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    891
    Argh... never mind - that's a fantasy site.
     
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,919
    Likes Received:
    3,866
    Location:
    Michigan
    Total FT points per game is a whole different story than making crucial, crunch-time free throws when the game is on the line. The championship teams have had guys (Dumars, Thomas, Billups, Hamilton, etc.) that could win or preserve wins at the FT line. You cannot under-value this asset.
     
  5. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,730
    Likes Received:
    399
    Location:
    Michigan/Glasgow
    I am looking forward to seeing how max contracts are handed out in 3-4 years once the new rules are well into play.

    FWIW, I'd only give max contracts to James, Durant and Paul right now. Durant is a barely for me right now but feel his best is to come.
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,732
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Maybe you don't have the need to make crunch time FT's if you are comfortably ahead at that point in the game. Besides, with that lineup, we'd rebound the misses and dunk it back anyway.

    Here were the margins in the 2004 Championship playoff run:

    Round 1 (vs MIL)
    +20
    -4
    +10
    +17
    +14

    FT's didn't matter in that series

    Round 2 (vs NJ)
    +22
    +15
    -16
    -15
    -7
    +6
    +11

    Game 6 was the only close win where it may have mattered... and a 6 FT differential from the line is a massive difference

    Round 3 (vs IND)
    -4
    +5
    +17
    -15
    +18
    +4

    Finals (LAL)
    +12
    -8
    +20
    +8
    +13

    In 23 playoff games that year, we were 16-7. In the 16 wins, 12 of them were double digits. Only 1 was less than 5 points.
     
  7. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2009
    Messages:
    4,913
    Likes Received:
    1,661
    Gender:
    Male
    When you're playing the Heat, you don't just need a LeBron stopper, you also need a Wade stopper. If we had both Iggy and Smith, we'd be one of the few teams who'd be able to play the Heat man-to-man without double teaming every possession. Miami's biggest strength is drawing double teams and finding the open man.

    That's how we beat Lakers in 2004 btw. Big Ben was able to defend Shaq without help and Prince could keep up with Kobe which didn't leave anything open for the other guys.

    So, I like the idea of getting both Smith & Iggy and just playing suffocating defense. For that to work though, Moose has to become a serious threat from 18' range. Sorta like KG. When he's on the floor with Smith and Drummond, he needs to be a long range shooter.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    858
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    They're only over the lux-cap by about $2M, and it will be their first year being over the cap, the penalty gets brutal when you are over the cap for successive years, they can easily trade another player who makes less to get under the luxury cap and they will be significantly under the cap next summer so they actually have the flexibility to re-sign him. I personally prefer Wilson Chandler.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,766
    Likes Received:
    2,614
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Wilson Chandler isn't a difference maker.
     
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    858
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Neither is Iggy, but one only makes about $6M/yr and I think he'd be an upgrade over Singler and I whole heartily believe that both of those guys (Singler and Chandler) would be an upgrade over Knight at SG. I also believe that he's a better SMALL forward than Josh Smith, but not a better player....again, a $6M bargain.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    Messages:
    20,766
    Likes Received:
    2,614
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Dagobah
    Is Wilson Chandler, in your opinion, as good, better or worse than Iggy?

    I am not crazy about Iggy, but he strikes me as one of those guys who could still have an upside.
     
  12. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,901
    Likes Received:
    858
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Not as good, but again, $6M, he's 6'8", still young, a really good defender, athletic and has a decent jumper. Iggy, upside? at age 30? Not so sure about that.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,732
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    It's of course difficult to quantify defense, but so far in their careers, here is how Iggy and JSmith are shaking out:

    Iggy: OWS/year = 4.0, DWS/year = 3.5
    Smith: OWS/year = 1.5, DWS/year= 4.0

    Monroe is averaging 4.3 and 2.8 for comparison.

    So, Iguadola would be almost a true 2-way player and Smith would be more heavily weighted on defense. But they would both become top 3 defenders on our team (depending where you put Drummond).

    On paper, I would think that we'd become a top 3 defensive team in the league, if not the best, even with someone like Calderon as a starter.


    Jose/Bynum
    Iggy/Knight/ Stuckey
    Smith/ Singler
    Monroe/ Smith
    Drummond/ Monroe

    That's tight. Knight can be inserted for Jose if there is ever a severe problem with a matchup. Singler and/or Villanueva could be mixed in with the starters if there was ever a severe spacing problem (maybe against teams that we can't run against). You'd primarily play 8 players

    It would be a very tough, physical team, with some some nasty attitudes mixed in. Absolutely would be no fun to play against them. The fast breaks would be epic. We'd have 3 guys that could personally stop a fast break against us. We'd have the personnel to play great man to man or zone.

    Taste test- one game- showing his versatility on offense (fast breaks, alley oops, 3-pointers, drives).


     
  14. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    891
    They're over right now, and that's not including their draft picks or any other signings. If they end up at $75 million, that will cost them an extra $7-8 million above that fee. Given their current earnings, they'll be in the red with that.
     
  15. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    28
    Gender:
    Male
    I really love both players, but I think it will be really difficult to land them. I'm not saying both, but even one will be difficult.

    1. Smith wants a lot of money, and I hate him at the SF position. He is super athletic PF with no range. We already got Monroe and Drummond, and we have to build team around them. So if we sign Smith, what should we do with our starting five? Play Smith / Monroe and Drummond with second unit? I don't like that either, Drummond should be our starting center, so you are suggesting to play Smith at SF. With his range I really don't like that option. Teams would just sag off him, and let him shoot from the arc, just like Stuckey right now. Smith is a great player, but we should target other positions for money he wants. I will say it one more time : Pistons should pursuit Paul Millsap as our 6th man, and a great backup for Monre / Drummond duo.

    2. Iggy IS a difference maker, he is one of the best defenders in the game, he is a great player, versatile, with 3pt range, great slasher and finisher near the rim, and he always plays hard. BUT the problem is he got a large contract, and I really think he won't opt out from it. He will stay one more year in Denver, and the only way we can get him is via trade, but I don't see anything Nuggets could want from us. IF Iggy will opt out, then he should be our 1st pick for offseason, and we should pay him a lot, because it will be really difficult to sign any better player.

    So... I don't even think we should focus so much on Smith, we got 2 great and young players in our frontcourt, we have to focus on improving other positions and bench.

    * If Iggy opts out, and we sign him and Millsap... Of course signing Calderon is first priority:

    Calderon / Knight / Burke?
    Knight / Singler / English
    Iggy / Singler / JJ / Middleton
    Monroe / Millsap
    Drummond / Monroe / Kravtsov


    To be honest I really would love to see Iggy in Detroit, but I think we have to fill SG position firstly. Knight is not ready, and he has to play with second unit another season, and earn more minutes. I didn't put Bynum, Maxiell, Stuckey and CV. I hope they won't be with Pistons next year.

    * If Iggy doesn't opt out, and we target Millsap and Mayo ( who should opt out, because of his small contract, and he is playing really well this season)

    Calderon / Knight / Burke?
    Mayo / Knight / English
    Singler / JJ / Middleton
    Monroe / Millsap
    Drummond / Monroe / Kravtsov
    I prefer this team more that that with Iggy, and Knight as our starting SG. Singler will be a great 5th option, and a hustle player.
     
  16. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,055
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    Any plan where Drummond comes of the bench immediatly have me off the bandwagon.
     
    PistonsPoland likes this.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,732
    Likes Received:
    3,077
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    I don't mind seeing Drummond come off the bench if he gets 30 mpg and we have a contender. The 3 headed PF/C combo of Smith/Monroe/Drummond makes a lot of sense to me. No rest for the opposition in that scheme.
     
    CarlosGallan and blueadams like this.
  18. blueadams

    blueadams Banned - Sent to NBDL

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2009
    Messages:
    1,081
    Likes Received:
    156
    Minutes are minutes, friend. It doesn't matter who starts.
     
  19. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    891
    Smith is a better SF than PF and has been for a long time - in only one season has he had a better PER difference at PF than SF, and it was negligible.

    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Josh.Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats

    He's a better defender than Iggy; always has been. You're absolutely correct that he's not an outside shooter, but a good coach can get around that. What you need are guys that are threats with the ball in their hands and nobody on them, and Smith is that. If you manage to get a real shooting guard (Korver?), then Calderon/SG can stretch the floor enough with Monroe in the high post and Smith/Drummond slashing.
     
  20. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,217
    Likes Received:
    891
    Smith is a better SF than PF and has been for a long time - in only one season has he had a better PER difference at PF than SF, and it was negligible.

    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Josh.Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats
    Josh Smith of the Atlanta Hawks, NBA player stats

    He's a better defender than Iggy; always has been. You're absolutely correct that he's not an outside shooter, but a good coach can get around that. What you need are guys that are threats with the ball in their hands and nobody on them, and Smith is that. If you manage to get a real shooting guard (Korver?), then Calderon/SG can stretch the floor enough with Monroe in the high post and Smith/Drummond slashing.
     
    PistonsPoland likes this.

Share This Page