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Discussion in 'February 2010' started by roscoe36, Nov 3, 2009.

  1. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Maybe a fairer comparison would be a less-talented, not as well rounded Jamal Crawford with a better attitude.
     
  2. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    1. Yep
    2. Only when you have no offensive bigs and shares the green light with Rip.
    3. We get torched consistently by starting guards and I would assume that you pick that big body to shut someone down.
    4. Gets close to the basket with the hip move and all are now wise. No finesse.
    5. Yep
    6. Yep
    It shouldn't come down to that and this is what got JD into trouble to begin with. The next two years he will make 2.8M and then 3.8M. He should be a closer on deal that remakes this ballclub...providing JD still thinks he has the talent to gain-on-the fly. Worst comes to worst, he comes off the bench and still gets 30+minutes.
     
  3. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Not as well rounded as Jamal Crawford? You're way off base there. Crawford (for his career) shoots just as low a percentage, is not as good a free throw shooter, definitely not as good a defender or distributor (though Stuckey isn't necessarily great at either).
     
  4. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Give me a freaking break. Not good enough to be a starter? Really?

    We won a championship with Richard Hamilton (fringe all star at best) starting at the two. Not taking anything away from him, but I definitely feel like Stuckey will end up being a better overall player over his career than Hamilton is/was.

    And Stuckey now isn't even good enough to be a starter at either position...?

    Baloney. Unless you've got a stacked back court with two all stars at both positions (and how many teams have that?), he's a good enough to start for most teams in this league at one of those two positions. Why don't you make a list of teams that he wouldn't start on in some capacity. It's not very many.
     
  5. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    while replying to a thread about the now... aka ben the other night I have thought the same thing for years... while i laughed at hack a shaq because i wanted them to lose i also thought that trying to win the game by fouling a player without the ball in there hand because they are a poor ft shooter was sorta cheap. I agree with fouling at the end of the game to stretch it out, but the team should be smart enough to have a ball handler that is suppose to be good at shooting them.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not sure Stuckey isn't good enough to start, he's just not good enough (right now) to start and be the man on a good team. I think he has as much game as Tony Parker, he just needs a Tim Duncan to play off.

    He would be a killer 3rd guard if we had kept Billups.

    Re: Hack-a-Ben and Hack-a-Shaq, the purpose of this is not just to split the FTs, but to chase that player from the game. It is an enormous sign of respect by the opposing coach, to risk giving up pts on every possession when already down, and the ideal payoff is to first get that difference maker out of the game, and second is to hope you can score every possession to close the gap.
     
  7. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I agree with this.

    But when you think about it, how many players are good enough? A handful of players in this league... maybe a few more. Even Kobe Bryant couldn't get out of the first round of the west without a dominant big man (I consider Gasol dominant given all the skills he possesses) in his front court.

    As prevalent as guard and wing play have become in today's game (due to the lack of hand-checking), you still build a team inside-out IMO.
     
  8. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    After all of the Wade talk, take a look at him. He's got at least as good talent around him as Rodney, and Miami is barely grasping onto a playoff spot right now. Fact is, no team is good with only 1 player. The Pistons just do not have a good enough balance of quality players to evaluate whether Rodney can succeed as a critical piece on a team with a good mix of talent.
     
  9. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I mentioned this before and I think this illustrates my point. It is especially difficult if that one player is also the PG or primary ball handler on your club.

    I think you can be more successful if your one star is a big man then you can if your only star player is a guard but you still have to have the flexibility to play both inside and outside. Right now we have zero inside offensive game.

    Whether Stuck is the Franchise or not really doesn't matter. This is a team game and if you can't put together 7-9 guys with real talent on a roster; you have no shot. Even if your only star player is Lebron or Kobe, you have to have the additional pieces to be successful.

    I think this has been proven over and over in this league. As a matter of fact; even having 5-7 above average players doesn't guarentee success; see Lakers with Malone, Payton and the rest of the squad.
     
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rip, for all his warts, was the leading scorer on both a NBA and NC2A championship team as well as being the MOP of the Final 4. I am not his biggest fan, but let's give the man his due. This fringe you speak of is more than likely far outside the reach of young Rodney.

    Stuckey has shown the ability to be a starter and key cog on a team IMO. That team will have a record 15-20 games under .500 though.

    If I'm being 100% honest and Pistons jersey aside, Stuckey is one of my least favorite players in the L to watch. His one speed, one gear game just doesn't do it for me.

    I don't blame Runnin' Rodney much for his faults, I more blame the team for putting him in this position. It is like casting Corky from Life Goes On as the lead in Rebel Without a Cause.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I told you guys, and you should know me better by now, to know I am not a player hatin' ogre. Geez, I wanted Rip traded last season, and this season I couldn't imagine a post-deadline scenario where both Rip and Tay would still be here.

    Doesn't mean I hate them, but man am I tired of looking at them sometimes. Thankfully they both found their jumpers, so it is a little easier watching them.

    I am watching every single game of this car wreck. It ain't easy.

    We're nowhere near the first round against a top western seed, and Rodney is light years from Kobe at this point in his career.

    Rodney won't be Kobe to a Gasol with how he plays. He's not good enough to pin 30 pts on back to back opponents a couple times a season. He could get better, but the #1 issue I have, is that he just doesn't see the floor well. And I'm not sure that's an easy fix.

    Isiah had to make a real effort to get his teammates going before he got going, same lesson which Billups had to learn. The thing both of them had before they learned that was a consistent jumper. Neither had a penchant for driving head down into 2 or 3 defenders, while open teammates wave their arms frantically on the perimeter.

    If Rod could improve his decision making 2 or 3 times a game, he could be twice the player he is now.
     
  12. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    OK, well you said it. As it were, Crawford does shoot a lower percentage than Rodney Stuckey for his career.

    Jamals three point percentage is head n shoulders above Rodneys. You are wrong about FT percentage, as Jamal is a good .3 points above Rodney. Assts appear to be equal, yet in my opinion Jamal has played the majority as 2 guard, probably where Rodney should be playing. Crawford has MUCH better handles than Rodney Stuckey, and his court awareness is also much better.

    The thing about Crawford is he can score when he needs to. Not only has had hit 8 3PT's in a game, he's scored over 30 40+ times, 40 points in 8+ games, and over 50 3 times. Career highs over 12 assts has happened more than once, and does not play point guard. He also has the ability to get the line at will.

    Crawford was one of the original combo guards in this new NBA era. I think if Stuckey could amount to even what Crawford is, with a better attitude, I'd stick with him. But as it is, Crawford is playing behind Mike Bibby, a point guard that you have already stated WOULD not take over Rodeny Stuckey, and I agree. Crawford is coming off the bench, in that combo guard role, sharing PG duties with JJ. I believe, and agree with many here, this is the role Stuckey needs to fit into.
     
  13. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Not really. Stuckey this year is not far off from Hamilton's best years IMO. And Stuckey has been asked to do more for the team this year than Hamilton ever has.

    If Jameer Nelson and Mo Williams can sneak their way onto all star teams, I think Stuckey can too. Now if you're asking me if he'll ever be All NBA level (top 3 at his position) that is a different question altogether.
     
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Stuckey's been asked to lead a championship team in scoring, when?
     
  15. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Eh, not really.

    Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

    Crawford scores about two more points per game (for his career) on three more shots. Crawford shoots a slightly better percentage at the line, but Stuckey gets to the line more often. Stuckey is a significantly better rebounder and better at getting assists.

    The key difference is... Crawford's in his 10th season in his league. He is what he is. Stuckey is in his third year... he definitely hasn't maxed out yet.

    And for those who brought up Stuckey's lack of wins, I just felt it would be worth noting that Crawford has not only never been on a winning team (prior to this year) he's never even been to the playoffs... in NINE YEARS!

    And again, just because Crawford comes off the bench, that does not mean that is Stuckey's role or that it should be. If we had two better or equal players at the two guard spots, you might have an argument. But we don't.

    And other than the Spurs with Ginobili, most teams do not have their best players coming off the bench.
     
  16. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    When has Stuckey played on the greatest defensive team in the modern era?
     
  17. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I never said you were.

    And I agree on Prince and Hamilton. Sometimes, I feel the best move is simply addition by subtraction. Unlike a lot of people who insist that we should get "value" for Hamilton, I would have gladly dumped him and his contract at the trade deadline for expiring contracts.

    I'm ready to be done with the past already. I don't feel like this team can ever really start to rebuild as long as Prince and Hamilton are part of the team.
     
  18. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'd disagree with you there as well, as Al Harrington comes off the bench in NY, Lamar Odom comes off the bench in LA, Jason Terry comes off the bench in Dallas. Could even go as far as saying Ben Gordon comes off the bench for the Pistons. The arguement could go all day and night. I was merely trying to make a comparison based on playing style. If Stuckey had been drafted by any other GM, in any other city, chances are we wouldn't have started nearly as many games as he has already.
     
  19. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    @2Tough...I really enjoy reading your posts, and honestly I am enjoying this as well. I dont want you to think that I am attacking you, or Stuckey even. I value your opinion, and I like to hear what you have to say. That is all. I'm glad that I can discuss this with someone, because it teaches me alot as well. Thank you.
     
  20. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Maybe Judy can help him.

    Agreed. It can be a no-lose situation. Either you reduce the opponent's offense (forcing a bad free-throw shooter to take free throws), or you reduce their defense (force the opposing coach to take the defensive big out of the game). With that said, the Spurs lost. :sssh:
     

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