vs Memphis Grizzlies Wednesday January 12 7:30 pm

Discussion in 'January 2011' started by roscoe36, Oct 19, 2010.

  1. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    thats gotta be on the coach though, and the other players around those guys. Does anybody think that woulda happened with the bad boys? or the Billups crew? no, because everyone woulda held that player or teammate accountable for his actions. I just dont see it here, this team is so "me first" that it kills me to watch em.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The hot hand theory was statistically refudiated some time ago.

    http://conferences.inf.ed.ac.uk/cogsci2001/pdf-files/0152.pdf

    Whatever slight benefit the hot hand has, it is more than negated by the team forcing more attempts through that player.

    Tay and Rip are students of the game and have read this study. They know that the defense expects them to force the ball to the hot hand, so they optimize efficiency by going to the cold hands instead.

    Human's have an instinct to feed the hot hand in general because it leads them to a solution that is positive... but not for the reason that they think. Higher percentage shooters are more likely to have a hot streak. If Humans have the instinct to feed the hot hand, they will more often than not be feeding the higher percentage shooter. This instinct allows that outcome to be achieved without having to do any math or keep a statistical log (something that we didn't have access to throughout evolution). Instead, we can think, "hey, he hit 3 in a row, better pass him the ball (or spear)."

    Think about it, when we're talking hot hands, we're never talking about Ben Wallace or Rodney Stuckey. It's always Rip Hamilton, Ben Gordon, Austin Daye, Charlie V. In other words, it's the high percentage jump shooters.
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Stuckey assisted on 2 Gordon hoops @ the 11:19 and 10:32 marks of the 4th Q. I can't tell what the lineup was at this point. I was operating under the impression that the freeze out coincided with Stuckey moving to the 1 and I may be incorrect there.

    That does not change the fact that Gordon had it going (and Stuckey was finally surrounded with capable jump shooters not named Rip Hamilton) and for a reason only known to him he decided the right move was to stop feeding Gordon the ball and look for his own shot instead when he had not scored in the 2nd half.

    That to me is his and the Pistons fundamental flaw.
  4. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Yea, agreed.
  5. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    I don't really see how Stuckey hasn't earned the right to start over Gordon, Hamilton, Bynum or any of the other guards on the team either. He's out-played all of them, by a lot. How is that not earning a starting spot?
  6. Mr. Big Shot

    Mr. Big Shot First Round Draft Pick

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    I was speaking out of frustration, but I do still stand by my allegation. I apologize if I come across as a Stuckey hater, but it drives me crazy that someone with all star level talent plays the way they he does.

    Mentality aside, Rodney isn't much different from D-Wade. Neither has a good shot, both are very athletic and have a ridiculous ability to finish around the basket. Wade is 6 foot 4, Rodney is 6 foot 5.

    Yet the difference between their mentalities is HUGE. What is the solution? A real head coach, mentor, maybe watching more film? That I'm not sure of.

    In his 40 point game he was primarily looking to finish at the basket, not to draw the foul. It's right here for reference: YouTube - Rodney Stuckey Whole 40 Point Performance
    (Sorry about the music, its the only video of the game on youtube)

    I think he could play like that more often. Granted, his jump shots aren't always going to fall like that, but he can attack the way he did that game. 3:42 is a perfect example of what he needs to do more often when the angle is available.
  7. hitafreethrow

    hitafreethrow Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Stuckey is no where near the player D-Wade is.
  8. Mr. Big Shot

    Mr. Big Shot First Round Draft Pick

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    I never said that. I merely said that mentality/BBIQ aside, Rodney isn't that much less talented than him, which is the truth. He simply doesn't utilize his talents very well...
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Dude seriously? Imma be real with this, do you all want to know where the Stuckey hate comes from? From statements like that, from the folks who keep overstating Rodney's skill set, from the folks who think he's a future all-star, that talk makes the rest of us feel obligated to point out EVRY-SINGLE-FLAW in his game to prove that he's none of that.
  10. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    What about the people that say he doesn't deserve to start on this horrid team or the people who say he shouldn't even be in the league at all? They more than balance it out. There are FAR more people who absolutely despise Stuckey than there are Stuckey homers.
  11. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's the back and forth, you all overstate the value in his game, the other side overstate the deficiencies in his game. He's 15-16ppg scorer on a bad team, most guys who do that never become all stars and you darn sure don't build a lineup around their strengths.
  12. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    When you put it like that (15 point scorer on a bad team), yeah, he doesn't sound that great at all. But I do believe, and maybe I'm a homer, that Stuckey would look A LOT better on any other team in the league (or just about any other team in the league). He has NEVER been utilized correctly here... and who knows how much we ruined his development by forcing him into something he's not?
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's the Homer in you speaking. On any other team he's Toney Douglas, Willie Greene, Marcus Thornton etc etc etc, he'd be a rotation player, no more/no less. Dude he has some serious flaws in his game, the fact that he can't shoot is a major issue when you're a guard, unless you're somebody like Rajon Rondo and you can do other things at such a high level that nobody notices.
  14. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Uh, you're reaching there. There are plenty of teams Stuckey would get good playing time on. But sure, make him out to be some borderline scrub. When he leaves us this summer and tears it up for someone else next year, I'll be sure to remind you every chance I get. Yes, he's a flawed player, but the league is FULL of them. Toney Douglas, Willie Green? Get real.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    This conversation is insulting to Toney Douglas.
  16. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Ouch!

    :stirthepot:
  17. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Great players elevate crappy teams. Your argument is that crappy teams drag down great players.

    Look at the Cavaliers. With LeBron, they were in the finals. Without LeBron, they are horrible.

    Look at Rashard Lewis. On a crappy Sonics team, he looked like an Allstar... even got max money. When he went to a good team, he disappeared.

    Chauncey Billups was a good player on a 50 win team in Minnesota. He came to Detroit and the Pistons won 50 games. If you look at his numbers over the years, they are remarkably consistent.

    Help me out, because right now I just can't think of anyone that went from a crap team to a great team, and THEN became an allstar.
  18. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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  19. 2Tough4You

    2Tough4You Bench Warmer

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    Well, if you want to be technical about it, Billups AND Hamilton both did. They both made their first all star game in 2006 (when we won 64 games). It's not to say they were bad players on bad teams, but their strengths were used more on good teams and they obviously garnered more recognition on good teams.

    And I never said that Stuckey was a "great" player. But he sure as heck is better than people here are giving him credit for (I mean, Willie Green, come on).
  20. Mr. Big Shot

    Mr. Big Shot First Round Draft Pick

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    I think the point that 2tough is trying to make is that he would play better on a team that utilizes him correctly. Bad team, mediocre team...As long as they utilized him correctly, he would do better.

    Btw, Rashard Lewis disappeared? If averaging 18 points a game on a team close to contention is disappearing, sign me up.

    Look at Raymond Felton. You can say that his numbers are inflated, but you definitely can't say that he hasn't been playing much better since he moved to NYK. Why? Because they are giving him a lot more freedom than he had in Charlotte and he's arguably an all star this year, behind only Rose, Rondo and Dwade in the East this year for guards.

    Look at Michael Beasley. You can argue that he is only scoring so much because he is on a bad team, but being on a bad team doesn't necessarily improve your percentages. FG% up from last year to 46% and 3pt% at 43%. They use him a lot better than Miami did.

    Im not saying Rodney would be an all star on another team, or even put up better numbers. I'm saying he would at least become more efficient without the burden of making the decisions at the point guard spot.

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