Discussion in 'January 2006 Games' started by mercury, Jan 5, 2006.
Nice sum-up Berbs, pretty stupid collecting a few $mil. while picking splinters out of his ass.
So you are saying that those hypnotism sessions are a waste of money?
I know. We tried to alter the culture to talking about something interesting like standings, stats or salaries, but it just won't take.
F.U.D. always sells. Fyi, that's Fear, uncertainty and doubt.
I think Darko will remain big IRREGARDLESS. Unless someone invents a shrink ray, like in Honey I Shrunk The Kids.
Here is a prophetic vision to go alongside yours. No CB, no championship. Heck, here is another one. No Sheed, no championship. One more for the road, No Flip, no championship.
I'm thinking to start a Darvin Ham Genius Club. The only requirements will be that you have to agree that Darvin Ham has to be on the roster or we do not make the Finals.
BS. Mo Evans gets to play through mistakes because we absolutely NEED some production behind Rip/Tayshaun. And look at what is happening with Delfino proving he is capable? Mo's minutes are steadily decreasing. Delfino is doing it the hard way, just and Darko has to. He's working hard in practice and playing well in games. We aren't playing him just to play him. We're playing him because we need his production.
As for McDyess, he earned his minutes last year where he was fantastic all year. Just because a player starts slow doesn't mean you give up on him. It's not like he was making huge mistakes like Darko does. He just wasn't hitting his open shots. He did the same thing last year. Started slow, then came on strong mid-season. We're not going to bench him for that.
Darko doesn't fill a NEED. Ben, Sheed, and Dice are plenty capable of filling all of the PF/C minutes. When he was getting minutes at the beginning of the season those were his "freebie" minutes to go out there and get something done. Prove that this team NEEDS him. He didn't. Darko's biggest problem is his rebounding. He either doesn't care or he just sucks at it. Either way it translates as putting out very little effort out there.
wrong about the rebounding
Believe it or not, there are stat sites that track rebounding just a little bit better than raw numbers.
Rebounding can be looked at by what percent of available rebounds do you get. Believe it or not, Darko is doing just fine on rebounding. Let me know if you don't have the wherewithall to look up the data yourself.
Re: wrong about the rebounding
That's so true. There are sites that track almost everything.
If you want, I can give you a site that tracks the most common causes of brain cell death.
You're right. He did get some burn before his horrible effort vs. the Knicks. I don't remember him doing much spectacular before that, but I don't get to see every game. I looked back at his stats and nothing really jumps out. He played well in the preseason, but that's the, well, the preseason. You can only point to preseason play for so long. He looked OK in very limited time vs. the Raptors. Something must be going on in practice that we're not privy to that has hurt his standing with the coach and president. Detroit media should be peppering Joe and Flip with more questions about it, but I guess they have to keep their eye on the ball. It's really about the team, isn't it?
if we can continue the pace (woulda been nice to win last night and get another game ahead of SA though since they lost) and secure homecourt with 5-10 games left, the bench will get quite a bit of development.
remember we're currently using a 9-man rotation and that's without using davis and that's without hunter...but it's hard to imagine we'd have a playoff roster 11-deep, especially with extended timeouts and starters w/the ability to play longer, which is why i'm not against a 3-for-2 or 2-for-1 trade to improve the bench.
I've recently considered the way threads get side-tracked. I decided to re-direct my last post to a more suitable thread. See my 10:36pm post in the 'Flip and the bench' thread...that's my solution to the problem. Micro...any other work-arounds?
Re: Darko minutes
I agree that there is more going on here than meets the eye. It is quite unusual for either Joe D. or Flip to criticise a player publicly, and now both have done so with respect to Darko within a few weeks of one another. First, Flip went public with a negative comments about Darko's lack of effort, and now Joe D. has made negative comments about the quality of his play to S.I. (see link provided by Micro above). My guess is that Joe and Flip have concluded that Darko has a fairly serious attitude problem, and that some or even most of this concern is based on his behaviour in practices, team meetings, etc. If they were just concerned about his play (as opposed to his attitude), I do not think they would have gone public with their criticisms.
Last year, Darko really did seem to be sulking at times while on the bench, and his frequent lack of enthusiasm for what his teammates were doing on the court was in marked constrast to, say, the kind of cheerleading Sheed regularly engages in when he is sitting on the bench. I have not paid much attention to Darko's demeanor on the sidelines this season, so I cannot really comment on whether there's been a change for the better (or for the worse) in that regard.
I thought earlier that this might be a kind of breakout year for Darko, but that now seems to be a very remote possibility. It may be that if he has any chance of success in the NBA, it will have to be with a different team.
Yeah, well Zoso and I can forego the work we do daily like the news and updating fantasy stuff, developing the board etc. to move posts. Not a good idea. Plus there is the inevitable, "You are censoring me! What about free speech! I'll post where I want want!" lashback that can only be cured with booze and a lot of aspirin (preferably at the same time).
delfino is doing it the hard way. if he had 3 all stars in front of him he wouldn't be hitting the court to do it. but delfino is an example of what a bench player can do when put on the court to be allowed to develop. if you don't think the steady increase in the quality of delfino's play isn't something good i don't know what is. delfino is getting better because he's playing. delfino is proving he is capable because he's playing.
you are right in a sense though. we don't need darko right now but we will need him in the future. the way we are treating him there will be no reason for him to sign for less with us like tay did. he will bounce for money and more playing time. right when we need him. so flip could play darko 8 minutes every now and keep our # 2 pick happy. it's not all about winning the most regular season games. it's not all about winning 1 title. the pistons have the making of a dynasty. look at san antonio.
i have no problem with mcdyess being allowed to work his kinks out. i think it was the right thing to do. i just don't agree that darko shouldn't be allowed to work his kinks out.
can you point out 1 huge mistake darko has made??? for the record darko wasn't starting off slow. he was having steady progress then flip cut his minutes and didn't carry over the confidence of the preseason into the regular season.
i disagree. you need to look at all the young bigs filling up the stat sheets against our big men. look at them getting outrebounded then come back and say there is no need to develop a young 7 foot shot blocker. darko rebounds at the same rate as rasheed. that's crap saying darko doesn't rebound.
mo evans didn't do much to prove the team needs him then either. but yet he's still consistently getting on the court. getting torched on d and losing the ball out of bounds on offense. he gets the occasional off. rebound and dunk.
Re: wrong about the rebounding
I don't need "numbers" to analyze Darko's rebounding ability. All I need is eyes. Is there a stat for "gets a hand on the ball, but can't grab it"? Darko would lead the league. He loves to let it bounce off his hands or chest out of bounds, and he loves giving up freebie putback layups. I don't need stats to tell me that.
PisLoy, was that a really derogatory comment by JD? He said the team sit. wouldn't allow Darko to play through alot of mistakes. Not fair to the starters. So either Mo's mistakes are tolerable because he has a good attitude. Or Darko ain't ready. Personally I didn't see him hurting us that much. Maybe our bigs can be rested by Dyess alone?
So, what, Darko does so well on his rebounding stats by magic?
Maybe Darko is blessed with other skills that overcome the shortcomings you perceive. Like being tall as the dickens. Moving really quick. Great ups. You know, once he gets out there and actually gets comfortable, I bet the stuff you are talking about clears right up. I bet we got a monster rebounder in the making. Can't wait to see him play.
Yes, he was given a few garbage minutes (as Darko was), and he played well in them. Thus, he has earned a larger role on the team. Darko, on the other hand, did not earn more minutes. Whether it be from the games he was playing in to start the season or in practice (for all we know it could be mostly about what they've been doing in practice). Delfino has played well, Darko hasn't. That is the difference.
If we play him and he starts doing fairly well (not better than Ben/Sheed/Dice, but good enough to demand minutes) what do we do then? You think he's going to re-sign with us to keep his limited role on the team in that situation? I don't know, but I doubt it. Either way I can't see him sticking around. I think Larry wen't about things wrong to begin with, and Darko just ended up in a bad situation. His fragile mental state certainly doesn't help any.
Darko's "kinks" hurt the team a lot more than Dice's shot not falling. Darko's biggest "kinks" are not offensive things. It's defensive rebounding, man-to-man defense, etc. These are things that Dice brings no matter if his shot is falling or not. Darko really brings nothing to the table if he isn't blocking shots (or if the refs are getting whistle happy).
He hasn't made "huge" mistakes in the scope of things, but he makes bigger mistakes than anyone on the team. Lazy turnovers, letting players get too many easy putbacks, fumbling rebounds, commiting cheapy fouls (he must have an NBA record for 3-point plays against him per 48 minutes), etc. It's not that he does these once a game either. He does them on almost every possession.
As for preseason minutes. Obviously his minutes were going to plummet coming into the regular season. I don't think anyone thought he would get close to the ~23mpg he saw in the preseason. I was hoping for 10-12 mpg, and at the beginning of the season he was getting close to that. But he was just a different player. I really can't explain it.
That's funny because Sheed is a crap rebounder as well (part of the reason I like Dice so much). You saw Memo kill us on the offensive glass against Utah. The same thing happens on a nightly basis. Just because Sheed does it doesn't make it right. Sheed gets away with it because he can strech the defense, hit some shots, and defend the post. And sure, I'd love to have a young 7 foot shot blocker, but right now he's just not ready to contribute to this team. Any minutes we give him would be a detriment to the team, and would be for the future only. That's something Joe D. and Flip have to work out.
I agree his D has been lackluster, but he definately did help fill a need. We were in desperate need of a swingman off the bench who could knock down some shots and provide and energy boost. He does that (though he's streaky with his shot). The most important thing is that he's a body to put in there in place of Rip to get him some rest. Darko's problem is that we already have Dice there to rest Sheed/Ben.
Re: So, what, Darko does so well on his rebounding stats by magic?
Last time I checked, being tall was not a skill.
It would be great if he mastered the skills of shooting and rebounding.
Re: wrong about the rebounding
Kwame Brown actually leads the league in this stat.
And that one must hold the league record for the biggest overstatement of the season. "almost every possession". And "makes more mistakes than anyone on the team".
I am not a big stat guy but I would believe that he has blocked more shots cleanly than ones where he got called for a foul. And has altered or stopped many more shots and that. And even if that is untrue, several of the players have said that he should not worry about the fouls. He should not worry about fouls when he is coming off the bench for relatively short minutes.
It is a losing cause, hoping that things will change here. People throwing rocks at the Darko bandwagon far outnumber the peoplle who want to give a 20 year old a decent shot. Attitude? What teenager does not have an attitude?
We would not be so lucky right now as to have Chauncey and Sheed, if some of their earlier coaches had been a little smarter. They were dumb enough to let them go and here they are with the Pistons, and they had some pretty bad attitudes, too.
Per minute, he makes more mistakes than anyone by far. I don't think you can dispute that fact.
I didn't mean to imply moderator involvement...I know you are limited by the software...and you know those limits far better than I.
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