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Utah at Detroit - January 7th, 2006

Discussion in 'January 2006 Games' started by mercury, Jan 5, 2006.

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  1. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Get used to it

    I think the reason for that is that DMC seems to be the only one who HAS to earn his minutes and loses them so easily.

    I think we need to get used to having discarded Pistons coming back and playing well against us. Soon, we can add DMC to that list :doh:.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Get used to it

    'berbs, DMC is de-activated for all intensive purposes right now.

    When Darko comes back and plays well against Ben and Sheed, we will have finally arrived in Bizarro world.
     
  3. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Re: Get used to it

    Micro, is this the official word coming out of team sources (it seems like it is) or has there been some announcement or what? I have been holding a little hope that after the rest are assimilated into the system, we might spend some time in the second half getting DMC involved.

    I just cannot see Davis as a Shaq stopper. And I cannot see the Pistons thinking about a trade of DMC without showcasing him.

    No hope?

    Sorry if this is the wrong thread but I am just answering your post.
     
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Your facts ain't quite right

    That scoring drought was Evans not knowing how to play the game, and Flip trying his best to change that. He tried to get Evans involved in the ball handling, and all it did was use up clock, giving us bad shots. No way was that Arroyo's decision. It was the coach putting in plays involving Evans.

    We lost 4 points of our lead with Evans in. But worse, we went from the ball flying all over the place, and players moving well without the ball, to no offensive flow at all with Evans in. Evans killed a good thing.

    Coach took Evans out, and Arroyo, Delfino, and Dyess then held their own for a few minutes. The lead did not change while these three played without Evans. And the offense was clicking just fine too. Why coach took Delfino out at that point I just don't know. Why mess with a bench that is working for you.

    After Delfino went out, the lead went back up to 9. Six minutes to go in the 2nd quarter, and we had a nine point lead. Which means that from the time Evans came in, with us having an 11 point lead, until that point, we had lost 2 points from the play of the bench.

    At that time, Kirilenko made a couple of outstanding long range shots. In a minute, one stinking minute, the lead dropped from 9 to 2. So basically, by your argument above, about losing the lead, you can't say the bench did bad at all except for that one minute of play.

    And that one minute my friend, had nothing to do with Arroyo's play. Arroyo does not guard Kirilenko last I checked, and Arroyo did absolutely nothing wrong during that one minute.
     
  5. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Re: Get used to it

    yes. darko does seem to be in the doghouse. i've gotten to the point where i want him to get traded just to show people that hated on him all these years what they missed. i cheered for memo last night as he rebounded and hit a big 3 on us. but hey everybody is happy memo is gone right. he couldn't earn minutes behind sheed.

    anyway darko has nothing to do with evans. he comes in and messes up on the regular and should not be getting minutes over delfino. delfino is coming along nicely he's progressing. why do you try to justify evans getting minutes over delfino by taking a shot at darko??? darko earning minutes is just a way of saying we aren't going to play the guy over 3 former all stars.

    seems like bizarro world will be here in about 3 years. ben and sheed will be aging. darko will be just flirting with all star status on another team. we will be entering another teal era.
     
  6. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Re: Get used to it

    how about we use dale davis. the pistons lose to all these bad teams because most of them for some reason are very big. we get outrebounded because the opponent keeps grabbing a fistful of ben's jersey, and they get away with it. dale davis can help us in the paint. darko gives us shotblocking, but not boards. spurs lost to suns so pistons are still 1.5 games ahead.
     
  7. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    Re: Get used to it

    let's go on to oklahoma. pistons have to win chris paul will be out.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Re: Get used to it

    Sure you do/did. You're a fan of the players, not the team. You'll be cheering for Darko when he beats the Pistons (hahahaha) one day, because you put the player before the jersey. Which is fine and dandy, so long as we're honest about what your motivations are.

    Which is really regretful because I have seen you post insightful things on the game, you just seemed doomed to forever be running in circles obsessing over each player who might get away.

    It's too bad you don't trust Joe. Because for as much as I criticize him, he's made many great moves and has a solid plan for the future. Memo may have big nights in Utah, but we weren't winning a title without Sheed. So now Memo can collect his big money and play for a .500 squad. Maybe Darko can text message him from the Finals...
     
  9. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    BBJ, Mic and consistant posting

    There's nothing wrong with being a fan of the player:re: Rodney White or Cheeser or Memo. But it is team first. "Don't ever go against the Family, ever". And don't be all over the place.
    Still we are supposed to buy LBs power play for Sheed. [he wanted more D] But what about JDs hand picked players? Don't F with JDs plan! Memo was a big piece that LB couldn't handle. Last nite he gets 17 boards---WTF!!! Was this a Unibrow lovefest?
    Try not to panick.
    We shot <33% from tre. That won't continue.
    Live and Die by the Flip.
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Re: Get used to it

    It's sad, but Micro does have a point. Anytime you are cheering for the opposition to score against us and they're not even a friend/family member...you've taken it a little far. It appears that your loyalty is a bit misdirected.
     
  11. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Bball, yes, in three years are window will probably be closed. But we can't worry about that. Everyone's window closes sooner or later. Look at the Lakers. Who would have thought 3 years ago. Your point about the last play is a good one. Everyone talks about Arroyo this or Evans that but that last play was terrible execution. We execute, we win. Why are we trying to play like a superstar team down the stretch. Chauncey's great but he is no Kobe or Wade or McGrady. Sheed should be getting touches on most plays. When we play SA, Sheed needs to get the ball up top as well as down low. Did you see how much trouble SA has with Phoenix because they don't want to bring Duncan out on defense?
     
  12. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    I think most people on this Board would agree that we could use another player off the bench. Flip doesn't rest the starters enough on the second night of back-to-backs (or the first, for that matter), but he doesn't have a lot to work with off the pine either.

    Because of that, maybe we needed something like this. As long as we keep squeaking wins out over teams in the last five minutes, we can keep telling ourselves that maybe we don't really need another guy. I think it's pretty clear our starters will be worn down by the end of the year if they keep logging the minutes they are, so perhaps in the long run this will be better by accelerating our search for a quality bench player.
     
  13. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I am really sorry, guys, but it appears that we have hijacked another thread and made it into a Darko one. But if I reply somewhere else, we wouldn't know where it is :confused: .

    I am and have been a Piston fan, as I am sure bballjay is. I know he is, and I know I am. But for myself, when I am convinced that someone has gotten the shaft, not gotten a fair shake, got blamed for things that were not all his fault, and especially, being the subject of such low-life comments that were not warranted, I do have the tendency to come to the defense. Such is the case with Darko and to a much lesser extent, with Memo.

    With all my heart, I hope Joe comes through but I am beginning to lose hope. He really had faith that DMC was in the future of this franchise, and me may still think that. But it seems that he hires people who do not.

    As for Flip, he is winning and winning and people believe that he has it knocked, but he is not winning the right way, as the 'little ykw" didn't and it caught up with him. It will also catch up with Flip in the same way.

    Just because we point out things like this does not mean that we are not Piston fans. The main problem I have with Flip is that he buys this stupid (in my way of thinking) idea that in spite of what the team needs or can definitely use, he has to win his little battle of "earning minutes' while not giving the player a chance to do so.

    Just look at all the chances he give the other players who come in and mess up. Over and over again, they screw up and they keep getting back in.

    While now, as in the last regime, we have a good talented 7 foot 20 year old who we have SEEN with our own eyes make plays, even if not on a consistent basis, that WE NEED. But because coach wants to make a point, we are deprived of this kid's services and are in danger of losing him for good.

    I just cannot understand why only a few of us see this. I suppose it is the same with you other guys who can't understand why I have not given up on him, but how do you give up on a 20 year old 7 footer with such an array of skills, who has not been given a chance to show them on a consistent basis?

    OK, OK, I will quit now, but when he comes back, I will still root for him, although I still want the Pistons to win in the end.

    Sorry again, guys. Can't keep my mouth shut until you all agree with me :frusty: :eyebrows: .
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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  15. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    more of the company line. different rules for darko than the other players.

    mo evans is certainly playing through mistakes. mcdyess was allowed to play through mistakes.

    yes. you are right i'm a fan of the pistons and the players. it is possible to be both. i like to watch lebron, kobe, ak47, dirk ... i have lots of players i like to watch. how can some of you on this forum question my loyalty to the pistons and yet you endlessly take shots at one of our current pistons (darko). yet there is a problem with me cheering for memo who i feel got the shaft. i wasn't the only one at the palace that cheered when memo was introduced.

    if you are such a piston fan why isn't everyone on this board cheering for darko and rooting for him to succeed. not pulling the "i hope he proves me wrong" routine. people on this board also didn't cheer for delfino. now everyone is changing thier tune.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Personally, I could care less. I'm more concerned why we got beat by Utah than why player X did this, player Y did not play or how player Z who used to be a Piston had a good game.

    Darko just ain't important right now. I think Joe's quote makes that pretty clear. This year is not about DMC. So why get all hung up on it? Still got a championship to chase.
     
  17. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    I don't know why people are resenting what Joe had to say. It has been obvious for a while that taking Darko as a project and playing for a championship are not a good mix. Joe is calling it like it is. Darko would normally be drafted by an Atlanta who could play him a lot without worrying about a W. It is easy to say play Darko. Yes, he could be the future. But if we start to lose games everyone on this board will be upset. Yes, bench guys playing now are not producing from game to game. I say play the bench on the back to backs since the starters are showing that they can't perform at a high level on back to backs. But what if the bench just isn't good enough? Other than Dyss, no one there is really proven. Yes, I like Delfino but he is not proven. How many minutes would Darko get? 5 isn't enough, with 10, if he doesn't produce, we would get a loss and then what? If Darko started playing 10 a game now, he might be ready in two years to play big=time playoff ball. It is questionable that he could guard Shaq today. And then , even if he could, his offense is not ready. That is why Joe got Davis. Joe understands his mistake. The Bucks picked up Magloire to help Bogut. Bynum is not playing for the Lakers and is being schooled by Kareem. Kwame is in his 4th year and still doesn't have much game. We made a mistake taking Darko no matter how well he turns out because any of the proven players in that draft would be helping us now. But there are reasons for that mistake that would be far afield here. The only reason he is not traded is that management probably feels that we can afford the luxery of having him not play and hoping he develops before we have to trade him. Do we have that luxery?
     
  18. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I cheer when its warranted.

    Delfino earned his stripes, Darko has not.

    The issue isn't rooting for a former Piston, the issue is rooting for a former Piston while they are playing against us in a game. I am a fan of Lebron James as well, but if he hits a big shot against my team....for that second, there is noone on this earth I despise more. :)

    Besides, I don't think anyone in this forum has ever cheered against Darko, Delfino, or any other Piston. (Or at least proclaimed it on the site that I know of). There is not a minute that Darko gets into the game that I don't think most of the members on the site are hoping to see Darko show he is deservent of his draft position.

    The debate that most members have had with you has normally had nothing to do with IF they want Darko to succeed...it has always been IF Darko has actually done all he can to be successful in this organization.

    All I'm saying is that if I'm standing next to you at the Palace, Memo hits that shot and the reality that we have loss a game that was in our grasp slowly creeps in....I see you visibly happy for Memo....I'm pissed. Your loyalty to a player even when it is at our demise is what I call be a waivering fan. ...more so than waiting longer to form an opinion on how well someone will perform in the league without any compelling evidence.

    BTW, I am in agreement that if the chase to 70 is going to happen at the expense of player development and championship readiness....then this may ultimately be a loss we needed to have. Flip's management of the bench has been suspect all season....perhaps our only negative mark in this stellar start. The Utah game was no different. I do commend him on his new found trust in Delfino though. Bballjay, "guessed" right with this dude. He is the truth in my opinion. Our secret weapon come playoff time if he continues his steady incline of playing time.
     
  19. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Micro, from that article, I get that Darko will not be playing for another four years and he will have to be good enough to start out playing 15-20 minutes a game in order to get in at all. He will not be allowed to play through his mistake as just about everyone on the Pistons has done.

    He apparently cannot see DMC starting out at 10 minutes, regularly, and improving and earning his extra minutes.

    When you do not play a player, how do you know that he will make these mistakes that his teammates will not be able to forgive? I admit Darko is not good enough to earn minutes from the end of the bench, and that is what he is limited to doing. I remember a lot of forum members saying many bad things about Delfino last year, but he has managed to carve out a niche for himself, because he was ALLOWED to have his chance.

    I don't know how any player is expected to show his wares if he does not get into the games. But that is what I have been saying forever, and not just about DMC.

    And how could Joe even imagine that he will still be here once he is allowed to make a decision for himself on whether to collect rings from the end of the bench or actually play in the NBA? They must REALLY think DMC is stupid.
     
  20. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Don't try to fool yourself. Darko remains the hottest topic around here. And an extremely important one. With out bigs routinely getting overplayed, absolutely Darko playing is a huge subject. And with us having to face Shaq and Duncan in the playoffs, absolutely Darko is an important subject. Don't be lulled to sleep by Shaq not doing well at the moment. Remember, the playoff schedule is light, and is going to favor the big man in that he will have plenty of rest, and plenty of energy, to score on us. And score on us. And score on us. No Darko, no title. So unless you think championships are not important, the subject of Darko remains very big.
     
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