truehoop: Time to Blow Up the Pistons?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by lurker, Jun 7, 2007.

  1. lurker

    lurker First Round Draft Pick

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    Henry Abbott at truehoop asks whether it's time to blow it up. He mentions how teams would love to get one of our big four:

    He then prints an email response from Matt of detroitbadboys who discusses the question from the Pistons perspective:
    Here's how I see the big assets:

    Sheed: Do not trade! He's worth more to a properly-functioning Pistons team (i.e., goodbye Flip) than probably any other team. There's no way we could get full value for him.

    Chauncey: He's not as good as he thinks, but he's an All-Star and still one of the top PGs in the league. Not worth max money. A sign-and-trade would be ideal.

    Rip: I agree he's the most valuable commodity. If Joe trades Rip, he better get a lot in return.

    Tay: He never wants to come out of a game, but I think he's being overplayed. If you think Joe regrets drafting Darko, just wait until Tay is somewhere like Phonenix, putting up big numbers but in only 30 minutes per game. Do not trade.

    JMax: I think he's going to keep getting better, but he's played enough that other teams probably see that too, so he's got some value. Maybe.

    Amir: Do not trade!!

    Draft picks: Trade up, or package them in a deal.
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Can someone please show me some statistics to show that Rip is better/ more valuable than Chauncey?
     
  3. hlbimage

    hlbimage First Round Draft Pick

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    I second that, just because Chauncey had a really bad series against the Cavs this year doesn't mean he's a bad player. The Piston as a whole did not brought their "A" game faces to the table. The coaching staff need a little replacement too. What the Piston really need to do is bring in new and young players to replace the bench as backup for the starters. We had no back-up at all to answered the Cavs unexpected lineup like that crack-head Daniel Gibson.
     
  4. crumbs

    crumbs First Round Draft Pick

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    I'm guessing that most people are judging Billups value to the team against whatever his new contract ends up being. It's not really fair (considering that we have no idea what the contract will be worth), but that's how it goes when big dollar amounts are discussed.

    It doesn't help that he played poorly against Cleveland two years in a row and that his leadership ability has come under scrutiny.
     
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    why would you need statistics when you can go with your gut? :pound:

    The big problem with Billups is that he's still going to be coached by Saunders. It was obvious that trapping Billups is effective. In fact since we rely on Billups so much, it was more effective than just shutting one guy down.

    Flip's system blows.
     
  6. armygirl

    armygirl Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    S & T Billups arse right to Dallas for Devin Harris. Somehow need to acquire Gerlad Wallace, next fire Flip, Porter Head coach, Laims asst or vice versa.
     
  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Age, next season's contract value.

    Absolutely. The same standard people used with Ben Wallace when his contract was up.

    You're my friend! :thumb:
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Nice statistics guys.

    He's old. We're going to pay him a lot. Other teams can trap him.


    He's only 32, right? Jordan had his best years from 33-35 years old. That is the period of time that we would be locking Chauncey in for. Why was Jordan best during that period? Because he optimized the balance between experience, athleticism, and leadership.

    Chauncey is a great leader. Mr. Big Shot. Never gets too high or low. Likes to share the ball and the attention. Says nice things about the young guys on the team.

    The grass is always greener. You're all gonna miss this dude when we have a turnover prone, jumper happy, choker leading the Pistons to a 9th place finish in the Leastern Conference.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You asked Rip vs. CB. Salary and age are legitimate. :nerd2:

    Yes, I see a lot of similarities between Jordan and Billups. :MusicBigGrin:

    Particularly the 2 year layoff to play baseball. :pound:

    Fat lot of good that did Darko! :gun1:

    I don't buy into F.U.D. You're assuming the worst about every possible replacement. :cold:

    There is a real risk of this team entering a decline and tying Billups up to big dollars might prevent us from being able to rebuild quickly.
     
  10. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Rip is the most valuable because of his age and the type of game he plays. His game is unique with that steady mid range jumper. If Rip was to be traded to a western conference team I think you would see his PPG go up 2 to 3 points a game. People forget that Rip is our leading scorer so if he is traded you need a 20 point a game player to replace him perferably one that is a slasher and gets to the rim other wise I offense will struggle to score points.
     
  11. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    The Pistons' offense was a hell of a lot more difficult to guard when Rip Hamilton was the focus of the offense and not Billups.

    Ask Mike Brown.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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  13. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    Well, that settles it. Tayshaun Prince is a better basketball player than Tim Duncan.

    Cavs in 4!
     
  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    lol

    Updated to 5/20.

    If the Cavs series never happened, I imagine Billups would be a lock to get an insane contract that would handicap us for years.

    Look for silver linings.
     
  15. ahb

    ahb Bench Warmer

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    On the bright side, Antonio Daniels has only an MLE contract and he's the third-best point guard in the NBA; not much of a dropoff.

    If the Pistons were to take on Etan Thomas as well, we might be able to steal him away for only Rip in return!
     
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I can't believe Chauncey Billups has become a punching bag on the Pistons forum.

    When was the last time the Pistons overpaid their highest paid player and who was that player?
     
  17. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Such nice comments, most of this I agree with. Jordan seemed hungry to win during his whole career. I just don't know if Billups can have that edge anymore with the Pistons. How much would you give him in a contract. I'd stop at 12 mil per............
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's not about CB being a punching bag. We're talking about more than him as an individual now.

    The impact of a long term big money deal. It affects the entire roster, not just him. It influences who we can sign later, how much we can pay our own free agents like Delfino and Maxiell etc.

    Unfortunately, the Pistons never overpay. In fact, when it is time to pay big, they usually do not pay. And that is why we were 24th in salary last season and in a position to re-sign Billups without causing a lot of financial duress in the first place.

    That said, CB has been exposed 2 years against Cleveland and once in the last two years against Miami. These teams are our direct competitors. In good conscience, is it right to pay him big bucks on a long term deal if he can't necessarily be counted on to produce against the best in the East?

    I dunno. That's Joe's job and I do not envy him. Whatever decision he makes, someone won't be happy.
     
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We have players that get shut down by different teams out there. There are bad match-ups. Tay has problems with certain guys. Rip gets smothered by Bowen. Ben Wallace could be dwarfed by big centers. And it appears that CB has a hard time against Cleveland.

    To me, that is something that we should try to cure with the bench. Most of our bigs are sitting on the bench because of a certain expected match-up with Shaq. If we knew that we were going to be playing Cleveland, maybe we could have invested in a quicker PG. If you want the perfect PG, then you gotta get Steve Nash. Otherwise, you need a real backup... and it would be best to have a change of pace backup.

    There is always a number that is too high to pay a player. I am certainly not advocating that we do something stupid. But to me, if we let CB go, then we really may as well do a complete rebuild.
     
  20. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    Chauncey has been exposed. The tape doesn't lie. Every team in the league now knows how to shut Chauncey down and take him off his game. Chauncey needs to work on his game this summer and stop thinking he is all that and a bag of chips. Do you think being rewarded with big time bucks will make him want to improve? I doubt it. Perhaps Joe D. should sit him down before signing him and tell him that he was not happy with what he was seeing on the floor.

    I think the front court is more of a concern than Chauncey. We could go out and sign Mo Williams and the team would go on just fine after an adjustment period, but if we don't get someone that wants to get in the paint and fight for rebounds and reclaim the no fly zone we are not going to go far in the playoffs next year.
     

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