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Trade Dice?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by crastinator, Oct 19, 2005.

  1. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    [FONT=arial,sans-serif]
    from A.S. Blakely in the Mlive forum reposted at:

    http://www.mlive.com/weblogs/beyondthearc/

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    [FONT=arial,sans-serif]

    What do you all make of this? I vaguely remember reading that McDyess has a no trade clause. Can someone who knows for sure clear this up?

    [/FONT]
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Dice has a no-trade clause AFAIK.

    I think you can still trade him if he agreed to it, but for the love of Pete, why would you do that?

    He's a bargain at the MLE salary after his comeback last year.
     
  3. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    i love Dice's value, but like the article says, JoeD won't hesitate to pull the trigger if he feels the team will get better.

    Dice has finally proven to be a stud again and that he can play an entire season + playoffs + finals. but he's still an injury liability, imo. but he's a quality big man and there are plenty of teams who'd love a big man of Dice's caliber on their starting line-up, let alone coming off their bench. basically, he's got great market value right now......definitely an ace up JoeD's sleeve.

    despite all that, i'd love to see him stay and finally get a ring.
     
  4. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    We all assume that Sheed will be the Big out the door as DMC develops and we really need to clean out the log jam of big men up front. But watching the game last night I could see that Dyess would be the more sensible move. If we are talking about just moving bodies, with no regard to $$$$ and salary cap, I could see a 3 Big rotation of Ben, DMC and Sheed, especially with Maxiel in the fold. I wouldn't move him this season, but next season would be a possibilty especially if we could move him to a good org for a few draft picks or a good PG that could possibly replace Chauncey down the road. I'd hate to see Dyess go but Ben is or at least should be a Piston staple, and Sheed can just do so many things on the floor that don't rely solely on athleticism, plus he'll be a better trade when he has an expiring contract.
     
  5. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    not sure what to think of this at the moment, or what kind of player we'd want to trade for in return. i'd be a little surprised if we tried to trade him considering how there was a complaint about needing another big body in the San Antonio series, and just how much JD likes to stack the team with bigs.
     
  6. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    Dyess

    I saw that too. I think that speaks to how much progress ASB thinks Darko has made.

    Still, I wouldn't deal him this year. Dyess came up big in the postseason last year and, in the event of an injury to Ben or 'Sheed, I would trust him more to step in without losing a beat.

    I would look for Darko to be the fourth big this year and then the third big in a three-big rotation next year (assuming he continues to come along as well as he has).

    The no-trade clause I don't think is that big of an issue-if Dyess realized he would become the fourth big I think he'd want a chance to play elsewhere anyway and would be willing to waive the clause.

    Additionally, something makes me think his contract has a player opt-out at the end of this year. If it does, and if he has a solid year this year, it may be in his and the Pistons' mutual interest to part ways (even without the clause a trade would be an option). He's good enough to start on many if not most other teams, and the P's would want to clear space for Darko at that point anyway.

    At any rate, it's a great problem to have. Ben, 'Sheed, Dyess, Darko, Dale Davis, and Maxiell. This is the best crop of big men we've ever had in Detroit.
     
  7. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    :amen: JoeD has done an excellent job in keeping us competitive for years to come. excuse me while i worship my Joe Dumars shrine..... :hail:
     
  8. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Honestly, anything you get for Dice at that value will not be enough. At the Mid level exception absolutely everything is a downgrade.
     
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    But we really won't need anything or anybody in return, we're just trying to clear space (bodies not cap per se). With his modest contract we can send him almost anywhere, and get the small tweeks in return. Maybe by then our concern is getting a backup PG or shooting guard, I expect AJ will develop by then as a forward who can play either spot like AL Harrington and Shawn Marion.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's all predicated on health. One injury to Sheed or Darko and Dice's value to the team goes up exponentially.

    Davis and Ben cannot supply the scoring we need in the frontcourt.
     
  11. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    Ok, I gather from what you all are saying that this is a next year decision rather than one for this year. That makes more sense than ASB suggesting it might happen now. I agree it'd be a mistake to let him go this year. He raised his game so well in the playoffs and he has such good chemistry with the starters.
     
  12. iamme

    iamme First Round Draft Pick

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    i think the point of the article is that since Darko has finally been stepping it up, Dice becomes a tradeable commodity. given JoeD's history of trading away players he is close to (Hunter, Stack), it shouldn't be assume that he will keep Dice just for sentimental reasons. if someone approaches JoeD this season with a great trade for Dice, he'll definitely consider it.
     
  13. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I see your point, but I'm still with Micro with the thought that I like having him as an insurance policy in case one of our other bigs take a fall which is pertinent with most BIGs in this league (Gotta love Arnie). Plus he fits in ("chemistry" as mentioned by Crastinator) very well with our team.
     
  14. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    That's what I got from the article too.
     
  15. Winless Wonders

    Winless Wonders Starter Forum Donor

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    I don't see a big log jam. Darko is still unproven. He deserves to have playing time this season but I would not deal anyone until he can produce on a regular basis and stay out of foul trouble. Isn't foul trouble what hurt us in the Finals?


    Dice should not be logging more than 20mins a game anyway so I don't see the need to move him. There is plenty of room for Darko to get 10 to 15 mins a game also.
     
  16. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's funny and amazing that we're even discussing this in harmony. With the play of DMC nobody is saying that HE will be the one to leave. As silly as it sounds this is all a testament to Darko. The fact that he is showing enough on the court to raise discussion of how to get him more PT is amazing. Alas the fact remains that this year we're set, BUT!! going into DMC's 5th year, where he'll be under a new contract someone has to depart. so let's see the options

    #1) Ben (6'9"-yeah OK), we LOVE Ben, Ben is PISTON basketball, we owe Ben as much as Ben owes us. That leaves DMC (7'), Sheed (6'11"), & Dyess (6'9") and J-Max. That leaves us 4 deep up front with good length, and talent.

    #2) Sheed, leaves us with 3 players under 6'9, if he goes that leaves us pretty small up front.

    #3) Dyess, leaves us with 2 players about 7' and Ben and J-Max.
     
  17. crastinator

    crastinator First Round Draft Pick

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    Yeah, I get that and I agree that's what ASB was trying to say. What I didn't get was how it was possible to trade Dice now because I didn't understand the nuances of the no trade clause. Because he has to agree to it, trading him is really contingent upon his concern over losing minutes because of Darko's continued improved performance. The thing is, none of this is going to happen before the 15 man roster needs to be finalized. Therefore a Dupree vs. Dice conversation makes no sense (implied in my confused mind by his setup, I get it now that he didn't mean it right way). I don't want to see Dice go anywhere, but I get how it might be in his best interest next year.
     
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Keeping Dyess this whole season is a no brainer to me. I'd entertain a few things going into the 06/07 season, and I'd definitely move him going into the 07/08 season. Dyess' contract expires after 07/08, more attrcative to teams more than the player himself. In the the 07/08 season ideally we would have Ben and Tay making around 10 mill per. Assuming all that we would be looking at around a $75 mill payroll with this roster and a new Darko contract that pays him around $10 mill. That year Dyess, Arroyo, and Chauncey have expiring contracts worth about $17 mill. The next season you have Sheed's expiring deal of $13,680,000.00. Ol Billy D is going to have to pay some lux tax in 07/08 whether he likes it or not.

    If the youth of this team really develops, Joe can do something that only 2 other teams have done, The old Celts and Lakers. A situation where you stay in contention for years with different team cores. Pretty nice company Joe. Chi didn't do it, Utah only did it because Stocton and Malone played for like 100 years, you could argue Portland, but c'mon, did anyone ever expect those teams to win it all vs the Pistons, then Bulls, then Lakers....NOT.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Dice can't/won't be traded unless he requests a trade...
    the only way that happens if he get no PT... he's not working towards his next contract... If Darko improves to the point where he's more productive than Dice then Dice becomes our injury insurance
    I think DMC's next natural progression is to squeeze minutes from Dice... he could easily get 22-24 minutes in 06/07
    Then we start talking about pushing the other bigs...
    But for now let's see if he can rebound...stay out of foul trouble and consistently hit his shots.
     
  20. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    It just dawned on me...
    This is the first year we've had a healthy and in shape Ben & Sheed to start a season... scary huh :eek:
     

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