Breaking News Trade - Calderon to Pistons in 3-way deal for Prince

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. PistonsPoland

    PistonsPoland First Round Draft Pick

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    Jose Calderon WILL play today.... TODAY IS THE DAY!!!
     
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  2. copper

    copper Bench Warmer

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    Finally gets the all clear...now, does this signal a full Lineup change? does Drum also make the move to starter?
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    With Maggette, is the reason that we don't buy him out in case we find a trade that we want to make with his contract? Whereas after a buyout we'd have to strictly pursue a FA to use the money?

    If we waived him or bought him out, we'd get some discount on the cost, right? Assuming that he still has market value out there.


    With Charlie V, if we amnestied him, would we get a similar discount? I.e., we waive him and then another team ends up signing him for 50% of his current rate, and we also amnesty him to preserve the entire amount under the cap? Just want to make sure that I'm viewing these things correctly.
     
  4. Rocastle

    Rocastle Bench Warmer

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    If we amnestied Charlie V, then the full amount of his contract stops counting against our salary cap, but Gores still has to pay it. If another team picks him up for half his salary then Gores only has to pay the other half, and so on. I think... Not sure on the Maggette question.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I sincerely doubt it.

    Calderon/ Bynum
    Knight/ Stuckey
    Singler/ Jerebko (limited)
    Maxiell/ Villanueva
    Monroe/ Drummond

    That is the most likely scenario.

    Blaha and Kelser brought up the stat that the Pistons have the top rated FG% against in the 1st quarter of games this year. Not sure how much of that was due to Tayshaun Prince, but I'm guessing Frank is giving a lot of the credit to Maxiell. I could argue both ways on this one.

    My gut tells me that Frank will try to keep as much continuity as possible until Calderon is integrated into the lineup for a few weeks. I also have a feeling that they are going to stick to the pre-planned script on Drummond, no matter what his performance looks like or any other circumstance. He's probably scheduled to start on a certain date and Frank has a reminder on his smart phone so that he doesn't forget.
     
  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Maggette is insurance. JJ blows his knee out or Singler tears his ACL, we need someone to eat up minutes at the 3 with Tay gone. I don't buy this Rodney Stuckey at the 3 stuff, I think Frank is trying to say all of the right things.

    They did it for 3 minutes in the 4th Q yesterday, and were -4.
     
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is a loophole question going further down that chain of thought:
    Would it be possible for us to waive CV and then be the team that resigns him for a reduced rate?

    Under that scenario, we'd still get his services and we'd have him at a true market rate contract. The remaining $4-5M per year would be chopped off of our total for salary cap consideration if we used our amnesty.

    For this to work effectively, we'd have to waive him, amnesty him, and resign him during the season when other teams aren't in a position to essentially make a FA offer due to their fully loaded rosters. Ideally, we could get him back for well below his market value and wipe out a bigger fraction of his current salary from our cap total.

    It's similar to credit bidding when you are a note holder in a foreclosure sale (in that case, you want to bid as little as possible to get the collateral and maximize the deficiency against the guarantor/ borrowerer).

    Let me know if I'm on some sort of pipe or if I should text JD.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Maggette clearly isn't what he used to be, but it has turned out to be a good move. He's displaying true veteran leadership, he's doing what Tay was supposed to do and I still think he's a better backup SF than Rodney any day of the week; heck...I think he's actually better than Rodney, and I also believe that if given the minutes he'd put more stats in the boxscore than Rodney.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The amount of salary that we have dropping off is astounding:

    We're only at $69M committed this year and the following are going away:
    Calderon: $11M
    Maggette: $10.9M
    Villanueva: $8M (if we choose to amnesty him to hit a target FA)
    Hamilton: $5.5M
    Maxiell: $5M
    Bynum: $3.5M

    Total: $43.9M!

    $26.6M committed next year (w/o CV) to Stuckey, Jerebko, Monroe, Knight, Drummond, Kratsov, Singer, Middleton, and English)

    We may want to resign: Bynum, Maxiell, Calderon, or we may not, depending on our options and draft pick.

    If we resign, Jose, that should cost us say $8M. Maxiell should be about $5M still. Bynum's price could actually go up a little... let's say $5M to be conservative. Resigning that all would cost $18M and we'd have $26M to waste.


    I gotta say, it would be really fun to be the GM of this team for the next 3 years. Trades may be more more fruitful because we aren't limited to the FA pool of talent and we don't have to worry as much about whether or not our destination competes with other cities/ teams. We're in a good enough position right now that I don't see a trade target threatening to go on strike to avoid coming to the D.

    I've known all of this to be the case, but haven't looked at it carefully since we swapped out Tay's long term contract for an expiring.
     
  10. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think deals like this usually are done after the transfer window since there is a small chance someone is willing to take a flyer on the player or the contract is needed as a part of a larger trade.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    It looks like they did in fact exclude the ability to waive a player and then resign him when using the amnesty provision. So, forget my loophole idea.
     
  12. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Totally agree.
    Maggette led the Bobcraps in scoring last year so he's not exactly a scrub. Sure, it was Charlotte but they still played against actual NBA teams. ...And I like the fact that he's been a good team dude while being glued to the bench all year. I know that some of our fellow PF members feel that the Gordon for Maggette deal was bad but I strongly feel that this was one of Joe's best transactions during his tenure.

    Maggette's a past his prime bench-vet with a tradeable contract and a great attitude.
    Stuckey is a 'never reached his prime' malcontent who is maybe worth 50% of his current salary.
     
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just one more nuance that many here probably already know, but that I didn't appreciate.

    If we amnesty Charlie V, only teams below the cap can bid on him and they can't bid an amount that would put them over the cap.

    So, let's use this simple example to illustrate how Gores would get screwed by this:

    CV gets $8.5M/year from us currently.
    Say he is actually worth $5M/year in an open FA market.
    If there are only 3 teams that have cap room and they have $1M, $2M, and $3M in space, then the team with the $3M in space will be able to bid the highest and will scoop him up at a $2M/year discount. Gores would of course have to eat $5.5M/year instead of the $3.5M that he should have had to eat. Of course, he gets relief under the cap to sign another player.

    If a player is injured an not producing and isn't expected to again, it makes the math always works because there is no secondary market for the player. But the better a player is, or phrased differently, the higher the player's true market value, the more screwed the amnestying team is because the odds are that the bidders will be severely limited by the conditions in the provision that limit it as I describe above.

    If a guy was getting paid $20M/year and he was worth $19M, amnestying him would produce devastation as the team that grabs him will be limited in their bidding by their existing cap space.


    Consequences/ questions-
    If that is the case, then wouldn't it be WAY better to amnesty CV in the off season when teams' cap space goes from almost nothing to them having lots of dry powder? The reason would be that there would be many more qualified bidders and they would all be able to bid a much higher amount. Before thinking about this, I figured that amnestying him now would be just as good as later, except that we'd have to go without his talents during the gap.
     
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  14. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think you can only amnesty a player in the off season. There is a deadline before the beginning of the season. If you miss that deadline, you have to wait for next year.

    If we ever waive/amnesty/donate CV, I would never ever ever ever want him back again.
     
  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    If we traded CV to another team.
    Can that team utillize the amnesty clause on him prior to next season?
     
  16. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    You just don't like El Duderino's style and you want him to get out of your beach community. You don't like him sucking around on this team. You don't like his jerk off name. You don't like his jerk off face. You don't like his jerk off behavior. And you don't like him.

    You have to admit though that he hits a pretty nice three point percentage on league nights.
     
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  18. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    :pound:
     
  19. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    You trust JD with $26M ?
    I don't. Not the way this org. sits now !
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There is only a 1-week window each year to apply the amnesty. I believe it is the second week of July.
     

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