Away Toronto Raptors Wednesday, March 12, 2014

Discussion in 'March 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. brofmfa

    brofmfa Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I must confess, this season I've watched Raptors' game more than Pistons's game because they are more fun to watch. You never know how great Casey & Co. have done. To watch Amir set screen after screen after screen was a great enjoyment.
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  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    On a championship-contending team, Bynum would be a nice 10th or 11th man that gives you a spark once in a while. For the current Pistons, he is one of few sparks in some games.

    I agree with your point, though. Sometimes, Bynum gets into "me against the world" mode and does some excessive chucking.

    I don't hold it against Bynum because he is forced to play a lot because no one else on the team knows how to pass the ball. Will's story to get to where he is today is amazing. The guy is an inspiration, imho.
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  3. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    On Bynum: yes, at times, he is looking better than Jennings out there. But the implications are not good for the Pistons. Lee is right on Bynum. He is not a point guard but "calls his number" and shoots or gets into the lane. Problem is that other than an occasional lob to Andre, he is a one man show. And he is not good enough to take on that role. Maybe it is the Piston offense that is the culprit. But Bynum's overall level of play is more of a third tier guard than a second tier guard and he certainly doe not play at a level to get the minutes he is getting.

    I am more concerned about Jennings (who had a good shooting game finally) play this year as he is suppose to be the main point guard. A lot of Josh's problems on offense stem from the sub-par point guard play of both Bynum and Jennings and the lack of offensive system on the Pistons. The guards have been given a relatively free ride. I don't think that they should.
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Monroe may be bad, but he can't hold a candle to Jennings' poor defense. He has killed the Pistons all year.
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  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Maybe I am alone here, but I think a shoot first PG benefits the Pistons. Bynum is the only guard they have that can do other things like run the P&R or pass. He has been victimized by the Pistons roster because he doesn't play with shooters either.

    Bynum absolutely can't start. To me his shooting doesn't hurt the team, it is when he hits those little ruts where he turns the ball over 2-3 times in a row from minimal pressure.
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  6. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Kind of crazy how Toronto got so much better after they hired someone really smart and cutting edge to run their team. Call me old school, but I'l take Joe and his magic 8-ball every day of the week!
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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    How can anybody dislike an undrafted 5'10" bench player who has the franchise record for 4th quarter scoring and has multiple 20+ assist games? Seasonal affective disorder can be treated.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    One, same starters. If we can't solve the pick and roll defense because Jennings can't switch, we bring in Stuckey. We never play Bynum under any circumstances. PS, we bring in Stuckey directly for Jennings, having him play point. And if things are going ok, then Jennings still comes out, for Stuckey, to rest Jennings and to give us a different look on offense. On nights when Stuckey can manage to get to the basket and score efficiently, he stays out there longer.

    2nd, at this point, since we do not otherwise have shooting guard on the team, Pope starts, and stays in the game unless he fouls out. He is young enough. It will help our defense. As an emergency, you put Jennings in as the shooting guard with Stuckey running the point.

    For now, Smith and Mitchell play all the small forward minutes, as much as possible, with JJ also getting some minutes there. Never does JJ play as a power forward as he is too slight of build to play there. He is too slow as a small forward really, so the less he plays, the better.

    That is basically a seven man rotation, with JJ making it 7 1/2. If Harrellson is healthy, he should play some too to get it more like an 8 man rotation. If Siva is healthy, he should be the emergency point guard, and ninth man in the rotation. (note, that is the ninth man, in an eight man rotation. Obviously though, since he will be playing some here and there, you always got to watch out for cases where he fits in a game, due to his better defense, better than Jennings.)

    PS, we have a rotations thread, where I am sure you find the same post, or one almost exactly the same from a month or two back.
  9. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    Bynum is an undrafted back-up guard. Lee is not right about his unrelenting critique of Bynum. I disagree with you there. We knew exactly what we were getting when we resigned him. In fact he has exceeded all expectations. What are you expecting from him? Did you think he was going to get taller once we signed him? Did you think he would turn into a pass first point guard?
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  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Did the other teams lose their scouting reports? What happened to using current reality?

    The unique thing about the last 20 game stretch is that Singler got heavy minutes and started in the last 18 of them. During his time as a starter, he's shooting a .591 TS%, which is just above Lebron James' career average of .580 and close to Drummond's .597, which consists entirely of shots within 2 feet of the basket and a release point of 12' in the air. His .420 3-point shooting has done wonders in terms of stretching the floor.

    Meanwhile, the guy that he replaced has languished on the bench offensively. In the last 18 games since he was sent to the bench (per 36):
    .351 shooting
    .222 from 3-point range
    7.3 points
    0.8 ast

    He has had 0 points in 11 out of 18 appearances. He has had 1 game with more than 2 FGs. He's averaging 1 assist per 44 minutes of playing time.

    I'll never say that he doesn't play good D, but man is he anemic on offense.

    It's hard for me to criticize the coaching staff for making the switch. If Smith/Monroe/Drummond can't stand to lose a defensive specialist for a guy that spreads the floor at +.400 from deep, then they just don't work together (which I agree they don't).


    I'd still like to see Pope in the starting lineup, but just not with the hydra clogging up the paint and with Josh Smith chucking up prayers. At this stage though, I'm afraid that any logical switch might result in a mild winning streak that would eliminate any hope of keeping our draft pick.
  11. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I know the final playoff spot is within range, but we have fallen behind NY now and haven't been able to make up three lousy games to get to the final playoff spot the past two weeks.

    I cheer for a win in every game, but the players on the floor disappoint me. We can put all the blame on the coaching staff, but they are not out there shooting long and short, passing into coverage or letting their man run around them.

    Time to make the all of bench warmers earn their money before the season is over......playing Mitchell, Siva, Pope, Gigi and BoT more would guarantee at least a win in one of the sweepstakes.
  12. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'd love to see the Pizza Guy get some serious run.
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  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Mitchell would at least be entertaining to watch. And this is supposed to be entertainment.
  14. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    You're onto the main issue with your last line, but the logical solution would be to go with Jennings/Pope/Singler/Smith/Drummond and bring Monroe off the bench to establish a 32-mpg rotation for the three bigs. Similarly, your 5-man bench backcourt rotation should involve Jennings, Bynum, Pope, Singler, and Jerebko, and consist of the following eight three winning lineups:

    Jennings/Pope/Singler (1.101 team ppp vs. 1.056 opp. ppp in 209 total minutes)
    Jennings/Pope/Jerebko (1.138/0.972 in 52 minutes)
    Jennings/Singler/Jerebko (1.032/1.046 in 69 minutes)
    Jennings/Stuckey/Singler (1.045/1.096 in 506 minutes)
    Jennings/Stuckey/Jerebko (0.895/1.088 in 71 minutes)
    Stuckey/Pope/Singler (1.078/1.141 in 132 minutes)
    Stuckey/Pope/Jerebko (1.015/1.098 in 69 minutes)
    Stuckey/Singler/Jerebko (0.934/1.028 in 104 minutes)

    Bynum/Pope/Singler (1.118/1.1 in 113 minutes)
    Bynum/Pope/Jerebko (0.96/1.05 in 102 minutes)
    Bynum/Singler/Jerebko (0.936/1 in 78 minutes)


    Ugh... the Pistons' backcourt situation is worse than I thought. It's clear, though, that Pope and Singler should be playing more together.

    Also, Pope is the only guy on the team with a + team vs. opponent ppp differential. MVP.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I have the feeling that the 24 yr old Drummond would solve most of our defensive issues.
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  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I know there will be some stats, somewhere that will validate Pope, but all of Lee's classic criticisms of Lindsey Hunter could be applied 10 fold to Pope, because he's actually 10 worse than Lindsey Hunter.

    Oh but he's tall. I forgot, the one out of game stat that validates a player more than anything he does on the court.

    Honestly, Pope is terrible. Maybe he won't be terrible next year, but considering how much PT he has been given as a rookie, he has to be one of the worst rookies in this class.
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  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Trying to be slick I see. Sorry, you got to follow the rules. You have to discount the few games after a change. In this case, Singler was put in the starting unit, and we have to see how he holds up to the additional minutes. Now, if you look at the last 12 games, after our new rotation has been established, you will see that Singler is minus 6 per 48 minutes. Go check it out if you do not believe me.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's an argument against the new rotation, not against Singler.

    I love how we have to discount his good games and only keep his bad games. This is truly a science.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee, I'm really trying to abide by the rules (or be "slick"), but they just keep changing. I thought 20 game trailing was the gold standard and forgot to adjust it in the case where the wrong guy comes up on top.

    By what percentage do you usually adjust games after a change? Is it usually 8 games that you set as the transition period?

    Has bynum's +4 during that 12 game stretch made you any more fond of him? I hadn't realized that he was playing so well based on what I've read about him here. How is the coach getting so much more out of him since cheeks left?
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  20. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm sure most of us believe you, but as always, it needs context...
    Over the last 12 games (starting, for some reason, with the second of the home-and-home vs. Charlotte):
    +/- Per 48 minutes (actual minutes played in parentheses):
    Siva (0) +187.4
    Mitchell (2) + 98.6
    Datome (17) +67.1
    CV (12) +29.9
    Bynum (263) -0.4
    Pope (103) -3.7
    Stuckey (316) -4.2
    Singler (401) -5.9
    Monroe (425) -7.0
    Smith (459) -7.8
    Jerebko (119) -8.8
    Drummond (395) -8.9
    Jennings (361) -10.1

    -6 per 48 minutes seems bad until you notice that just about all of the other guys that he plays with (and all of the other starters) are worse than he is.

    It's also a fun fact to note that, by Lee's own arbitrary metric, Bynum is the best-performing rotation guy, well ahead of both Stuckey and Singler and far, far ahead of the other four starters (and Jerebko).
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