Time to get serious about evaluating prospects at #9

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Jun 12, 2012.

  1. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Toot,toot!
  2. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I not only like it (as in the board's "like"), but redirects me on your ability of tapping into some historic perspectives. You don't take acid, do you?
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  3. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Some interesting quotes on Leonard.
    • Yet given the leap Leonard made from freshman to sophomore seasons in college, perhaps not all that big a leap for the Pistons. But does he have impact!
    • He looks country strong, as you might expect from someone who grew up in the small southeastern Illinois farming town of Robinson, near the Indiana border. The old JD (in the mix) would have understood this perceptive observation.
    • where the trend is to spread the floor and rely increasingly on shooters and athletes who can attack the basket and create their own offense. Is this with or without the peacock exhibition of who is wearing the thickest special frames?
    • Talk to scouts and two questions emerge with Leonard: Does he have the basketball IQ to mine his vast athletic potential? Does he have the maturity and temperament required to thrive under the demands of the NBA? Ahem, well Langolis is placing a mirror in front of JD as he contemplated the Darko pick.
    • Leonard might have benefited from another year at Illinois, but his family situation helped push him to the NBA. His father was killed in a bicycle accident when Leonard was 6. His brother, older by 2 years, just finished up his Marines tour of duty in Afghanistan. His mother, Tracie, has been unable to work and virtually housebound for years with chronic back trouble that requires surgery the family could’t afford. Wow, this hit me hard. No wonder I turned out bad. Come-on Langolis, don't so reach so hard for the corporate sob-line.
    • He spoke of a recent conversation with former Illini teammate Brandon Paul in saying, “I told him it’s been a big whirlwind for me, but it’s also been a great experience. I’m working out three times a day, my diet is right, I don’t go out. I’m trying to do everything right. I’m so focused. It takes a different kind of person and a different kind of basketball player to be able to do this. If you’re not locked in at all times and careful about the way you carry yourself, you’re not going to make it. In every form of what’s going on, I’m just trying to be the best I can be.” No doubt about this: he likes the cooking of apply pie. And we will not entertain further comments about Magic's relaxing episodes.
    • In a recent workout in Portland, there were reports that Zeller, with a relatively polished post game and the ability to score with either hand, got the better of him. Perhaps symbolic of Leonard’s issues with feel for the game, he fouled out three times in a span of six Big Ten games last season and found himself in quick foul trouble often. Langolis from JD: our conscience must be revealed and yields.
    • Leonard lacks go-to post moves, yet has a soft scoring touch around the basket and a potentially deadly mid-range jump shot. Combined with his size and athleticism, it’s the type of package that fits the profile of a player who makes a big jump late in the draft process. It’s more likely than not he’ll be on the board when the Pistons go to pick at No. 9, but it would’t shock anyone if somebody trades up to take Leonard among the three spots ahead of them, in the same way Bismack Biyombo soared in the final days of last year’s draft, eventually being taken seventh by Charlotte, which traded ahead of the Pistons. So in a sense, the end result is the current total knowledge that we will not have a real understanding of what ever plan is cohesive to our advancement. The full course meal is the agenda setting of empty noodles who don't understand soup bowls. No matter, the outer-liner dish served is to quiet the slurping sound of bad media manner and scouts with out professional transportation that have no understanding of the bumpy youth ride. Of course, administration knows best.
  4. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    All the good apples will be picked off by #9. JD will be looking on the ground for our 1st round pick.
    Doesn't matter who it is.........they'll be closer to Sharpe than Monroe.
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    In the process of looking at who we should get, lets look at what we already have:

    PG: B.Knight. Take it or leave it, this is our PG of the present and future. Its up to him and his drive and work ethic to become a floor general. There are a lot of factors that say he should improve on this (very short period to learn the most difficult part of the game, getting acclimated to the league, etc) and a lot of factors that say he won't. Until we actually see it, he'll remain a talented guard that doesn't excel at creating opportunities for his teammates. Piston4Life. or something.

    PG: Will.i.am gonna shoot this m-fkin' ball b*tches! Has value as a change of pace guard to teams looking to add firepower off the bench at the 1 guard spot. Trade factor - high. He has an expiring contract, is valuable to a team looking to shore up the bench.

    SG: R.Stuckey. Had every opportunity to develop into a PG but just couldn't do it. BK's presence seemed to unshackle Stuckey's collider-centric game until injuries derailed him. One of the team's top scoring options. Doesn't distribute well after putting his head down in collider mode. Will probably not be moved. Trade factor - ok. Talented but over-priced as a moveable asset.

    SG: B.Gordon. What if last year that shoulder was a bigger factor in his struggles than anyone knew? What if this year he shoots out the lights off the bench or makes Stuckey come off the bench? What if I got 8 million to dribble off my foot? Yeah that ain't gonna change. BG is like that drunken one night stand who stayed to cook you burnt toast for breakfast and wants to hit the amusement park with you this afternoon and then go clubbing after you take her/him out to dinner. Your iphone is ringing with other hook ups but how u gonna ditch this in time to hit the next thang? Maybe amnestied. Trade factor - poor. Overpriced and under performing - it doesn't look like a fluke either.

    SF: T.Prince. Contributed much 'needed' veteran presence and when I say needed, I mean Frankie needed a security blanket to make it through the season. I hope he exemplified professionalism off the court because on it, he didn't show much. Arguably the best player we had on the floor last year, he developed a reputation for stopping ball movement. In my personal, unedumacated opinion, he and Stuckey took a LOT of possessions away from Monroe. Main clog in the SF er, clog. Trade factor - good. Prince is a proven commodity and winner. best opportunity to get the best value.

    SF: J.Jerebko. Dude was forced to play PF because there was a glut of crappy SFs and a shortage of decent PFs with size. Performed admirably but was outclassed every night. Perfect for a 3/4 sixth man role. Part of the SF clog. Trade factor - poor. He's a hometown hero. We love what he brings every night but its not anthying remarkable. It's like finding a buffalo nickle on the street. The coolness factor is there but when you try to pawn it, you may get 6 cents vs. 5. I personally would prefer to hold on to that.

    SF: K.Singler. Singler did really well overseas and probably developed way more that he would have here and Wilkins may never have gotten the opportunity to showcase his value to another team. He is set to show up for summer league and hopefully sign with the team. The pistons section on the realgm forums has game footage on him. I was impress as to where he got to on the floor. We need guys like him and Jerebko to make defenders react. Trade factor - high. He's got the pedigree, history and skill set of a late 1st round pick. We have a overload of SF and a need for a veteran PG.

    SF: A.Daye. Where Singler moved without the ball, Daye moves into the corner. Its like a metaphor for his season. He floats into the corner and disappears in games and in the season he was told to sit in the corner. As much as I want to see Daye make a comeback, I'd rather see what Singler can bring and would rather have JJ take the backup SF minutes. Still he adds to the SF clog with a plus given to his ability to block a shot or two. Trade factor - ok. Dismal. The only way we can get any value for him is if we hoodwink Kahn. We can't fleece Otis Smith any more and Golden State turned over its GM. However, if we want to move him for the sake of moving him, we could get a 2nd rounder or he could be added as a value asset to a larger trade.

    PF: Maxiell. Did quite well this season. It may have been part of a long term plan as he only played well in contract years. He's seen the writing on the wall and should try to leverage his skills for a long term deal and should opt out. Unless no one wants him in which case, Dumars will offer him a 4 year 16 million extension after next year. Even if he leaves, its not enough salary relief in and of itself to be a factor in signing a free agent. In other words, we're still stuck with an MLE.

    PF: C.Villanueva. I actually forgot to write him up. Wishfull thinking on my part. There is a possibility that he may play of the Pistons as a 'stretch four' where stretch four = poor rebounding, defense and little off ball movement. Amnesty candidate. I would amnesty the dude just because. Amnesty should provide nice flexibility if combined with Maxiell bolting.

    PF/C: V.Macklin. Macklin's D-league eye opener gives us hope that he's going to be a legit backup. If he starts, he will be outclassed a la Jerebko but Monroe, Macklin, and Jerebko puts a lot of size up front. Trade factor - low. Unproven 2nd rounder that beat up some minor league hopefuls. Dime a dozen. Factors in more as a guy to split minutes/opportunities with out draft pick.

    C: G. Monroe. There is talk about drafting a C and shifting Monroe to PF. I have my doubts as he is out-quicking C's. Can he do that to faster PF's? At any rate, Monroe has developed decent positional defense and excelled at knocking away entry passes. He needs a help side shot blocker and another dude who can hold down the other front line spot. On offense, he needs another guy to operate around the rim or to cut to the basket. A low post threat would allow him to get put backs as he did very well in the early part of the season. Pistons4Life4eva.


    Team needs. I gotta fever and the only prescription is more Small Forward! One of the team needs is to address the SF clog we currently have. Playing JJ at power forward is not the answer even if it is the most convenient option Frank has. At this point Daye doesn't look like he has any upside or belongs in the league so how we turn that into an opportunity is beyond me. But basically it boils down to:

    1 less SF

    Looking at our guard crop and taking in comments at the end of the season, we need a veteran distributor. In lieu of a veteran distributor, we'll be looking at an established collegiate distributor.

    1 PG that can pass and run the O.

    Plus the obvious

    1 PF/C with good defense.
  6. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Our assets up front include Macklin and Monroe. And CV if he's not amnestied. This is my forward big board

    Drummond: Would fit regardless of type of game or maturity level. Worth the risk at #9 and probably all the way to #6. I personally doubt we have the assets to trade up but if we give up a SF and pick this guy, JD goes from goat to exec of the year candidate.

    Sullinger: Besides weak side shot blocking, we need rebounding. Sullinger may not have elite athleticism but he knows how to use his body and relishes it. Having a post threat allows Monroe to come in for put backs. Despite a more developed game, there is potential there if you look outside the box and we do have the support staff to realize that.

    Leonard: I wanted Enes Kanter last year and he looked like crap. I expect the same to happen to Leonard out there too. Still, 7 footers don't grow on trees. Not the greatest rebounder but potential is like crack to front office types and they constantly nip into the alley to take hits from the lottery. He has the best mix of upside, size, athleticism outside of Drummond.

    Zeller: We will be talking about how we can get this guy in 3 years like we did with Hawes. Fans whose team drafts him will pine for Drummond while other teams fans will want him to clog the middle for their donut teams. Zeller and Lawrence Frank would get along splendidly just like Wilkins did.

    Henson: Without bona fide wing threats or reliable outside shooting, there won't be a lot of room for weak offensive players to operate. Henson could find seams to exploit with off ball movement and his length would help him be a factor around the basket. The guy has steadily improved in each of his college years.


    The only guy that makes CV expendable really is Sullinger...and the Dominican Republic national team. Sullinger struggled against more athletic opponents but he was the focal point of opposing defenses. Sullinger is the one guy who can operate successfully without a good distributor helping him out.
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  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Sloppy has alluded to it a few times recently, but it would be a yuge step forward for the Pistons if JJ could back up both the 3 and 4. Unfortunately this isn't likely to happen with the Pistons and he will probably remain what he is.

    The Pistons couldn't trade most of these guys with an Uzi.
  8. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    JD is rubbing his crystal ball and the one who may fall to #9 is Harrison Barnes.
    I say Joe picks him on draft night.
  9. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    JD will pour into the cup of experience. He doesn't notice the fur. The beverage experience feels good,
    but JD will cough up another fur ball............rather than feel the bitter taste of disappointment.
  10. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Slippy is right. We need to break up this glut of SFs.

    I hate saying this, but JJ has a lot of potential. He was a steal in the second round. I would have no problems with him playing 15-20 in the SF spot. He tries on D, and he is generally a workhorse on offense. I love that in players.

    Really what needs to happen is TP needs to stop playing 35+ minutes a game. Assuming we get a big man, I will take another mediocre season IF Stuckey, BK, Moose, JJ and 2012 Draft Pick are taking up the majority of the minutes.

    If I have to sit through any more half hour sets of Taysolation's I will cry.
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    he doesn't notice the fur because its a 64oz coke and a double xl popcorn (he ate the hotdog on the way back to the stands because its tought to carry all that at once.) The bitter taste of failure is easily erased with a snickers bar on top all that. And a kit kat.
  12. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    This is a nice work up. We are most fortunate that justification levels of picks will come with all sorts of comments of the best available player (BAP). I am with you on the broad pallet of discovering the right stroke. But what is your expressive aspect of internal value? Your deep expressive level that understands that all play upon some sort of internal base.
  13. S.J.

    S.J. Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    I don't want Sullinger, I rather pick Leonard or Moultrie instead of him.
  14. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Oh, there is no doubt about a falling. It may be the unexpected one...then it might be two. The key is options beyond the pick. How is this going to be transgressed. Many organizations feel like the obvious move is a tell-tale lump of best available player (BAP) that one hopes is going down the throat like so many pork-rine episodes: a cough beyond expectations, the reality of a clucking maneuver from throat manipulations, the ultimate passage of a near-by (hopefully) location of some sort smoothy from a quick gulp of liquid, and the realization that this near-death-experience will not happen again...until next time.

    Here is the key. Start running-for-the-hills when the coaching (sans organizational level) has a near-by comfort level that concludes the playing field fill with the BAP. Money Ball wasn't about talent, but rather the substitution of what risk management thought was a valuable substitution: the creative energy as backup. It hoped for an association of Matchbox Twenty: "more-than-you think." Like most relative associations, those first strike matches are habitual...the gathering of familiar patterns. There is always a tempest. The certain slow fuse of good life.

    In recent years, and to this day, most humanistic scholars and most artist have shared in the general collapse of all traditional values. And when these values collapsed, there we not others readily available as replacements. And so today, a very large proportion of our artist, novelist, dramatist, critics, literary and historical scholars are disheartened or pessimistic or despairing, and a fair proportion are nihilistic or cynical. [They believe] that no "good life" is possible and that the so-called higher values are all a fake and a swindle.

    [We are in] a chaos of relativism. No one of these people now knows how and what to choose, nor does he know how to defend and to validate his choice. The chaos may fairly be called valuelessness.

    Abraham Maslow
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  15. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    Just not sure if Joe can survive making the other options work........He won't consider other options in Tao............:)
  16. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    First off, both of you write-ups (assessing the team and assessing the potential bigs) were great and I almost didn't read them because of this first sentence.

    I see absolutely NO reason to look at who we already have.
    We need EVERYTHING so the "best available player" seems like the best route to go to me.

    ...again, good write-ups though!
  17. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I think the best answer to this is in a song. play Short skirt, long jacket by Cake with this



    I want a man with a 7 - 3 wing span
    I want a man who plays defense
    I want a man that jumps like Maxy
    and swat away shots into the third row

    I want a guy who's got plenty of upside
    so we can bitch and moan
    about Villy some more
    He'll post up Boozer
    He'll box out McGee
    He'll patrol the middle
    get out and run the floor

    I want a guy with jump shot and a loooooooooong wingspan!

    I want a man who's a true 7 footer
    I want a man who has nice hops
    I want a man who's not allergic to contact
    Who uses his agility to alter some shots
    With hands as soft as melting marshmellows
    He'll catch a pass from Gordon or Knight
    He is fast and springy
    and will dunk on T-mac
    He is anchoring the team
    and picking up slack

    I want a guy with a jump shot and a loooong looong wingspan

    I want a man who can hit a freethrow
    I want a man who can score 18 feet
    On the perimeter he'll be setting a screen
    and he'll roll to the basket instead of jacking up 3's
    He'll want to work on establishing position
    He doesn't want to stretch the floor
    I want Drummond but I'll settle for Leonard
    But I won't trade Monroe for the #5 pick

    I want a guy with a jump shot and a loooooong wingspan!
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  18. Nemo

    Nemo Hall of Fame Forum Donor

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    Somebody between Bill Laimbeer and superman..............:)
  19. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Trade down, pick Moultrie or PJ3. Playing 2 Bigs is out of style in today's NBA. Teams are going small and athletic. JJ fits in well with this mode, IF Daye ever got his head out his rear-end we could be a very dangersoud team. I'd even like to see us trade down and pick a up another 1st rdr, it'd be sweet to draft Moultrie AND PJ3. A Moultrie/GM/PJ3 front-court backed up by JJ would be SWEET!
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  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I think it is more of a matter of finding the right bigs if you want to play 2. The Wallace x 2 could certainly play together today.

    You are swinging me back to Pervis Jones though with your thoughts.

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