Time for the 2013 Off-Season Thread (ugh)

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I think in a year or two there is a good chance Drummond could be on a higher level than A'ma're'.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I am the last guy to get excited about rookie players, but Drummond is definitely an exception.

    Physically, he has all of the tools. The question is whether he can put it together mentally.
  3. J-Train

    J-Train Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Andre Drummond is a better athlete than Amare. He's a better athlete than Amare was when Amare was coming out of high school. It's not even close. Not as aggressive, but every bit as explosive. He's much faster than Howard, baseline to baseline. That's not even close. Howard is a little more explosive, but that's nitpicking. Howard is a bulked up PF. He's a guy who grew into his position. Drummond is naturally a bigger guy. Drummond will end up being about the same height as Howard, but he should be more powerful. Andre Drummond is just a freak athlete.

    There's absolutely no benefit in using your amnesty on Chuck V, unless you follow it with a move that takes advantage of the cap space. You can amnesty him at anytime, ideally right before you want to use the cap space that the amnesty has created. Otherwise, you keep him on in case you need his salary to make a trade work.
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  4. Mark V

    Mark V Bench Warmer

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    Yes, he'll be a FA in 2014, I believe. However, I read a trade rumor swirling around that grizzlies may be looking for trade partners.

    Also, yeah Drummond's not in Amare and Dwight's level yet. Right now he's very raw but he's showing good instincts on the defensive end of the floor and he's freaky athletic. I don't ever recall seeing a 6'11 260+ lb guy run the floor like he does, not to mention he can jump out the gym. I saw him more as Amare because he seemed more of a fluid athlete than a straight power player like Dwight is.
  5. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Actually, there is only a short window each year in July when you can amnesty a player. The Pistons have one last shot next July.
  6. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    I get the feelings that you have read 2 insiders reports and are now scoping the FA market.

    Lets get a few things straight. Josh Smith is not too old for this core. He is 25. He is incredibly athletic and can defend the perimeter and the inside. He is a terror on the break. He is what we want.

    Tyreke Evans is regressing. This is not an argument. This is a fact. His TS is down, assists/TO rate is down, PER is down. His Synergy ratings are down. Everything is going down. Except the price. That and he is a slasher

    DeRozan? Again, I ask you to put down the pipe, as he just signed a $40 million dollar deal. Somehow I don't think they are going to accept Maggette, Tay, Villenueva and Stuckey for him. At that price, Stuckey is a better value option when healthy. Oh yeah, and he is a 22% career 3pt shooter. Way to space the floor bro.

    Rudy Gay don't pass. And he isn't proficient enough to not be a team player. His defense is above average and thats about it. For $16m a year, there are better SF's out there. Although he doesn't get injured often.

    We understand Dre is not on the same level as Amare and Dwight. All that has been said is he is very athletic and looks like he is heading that way. DHo and STAT have had many years to craft their trade, and it is extremely rare that a player from the draft is a superstar from day 1. In a year, I think he will be a strong centre.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    In terms of evaluating Drummond from an athletic perspective, you have to keep in mind that he's got more mass than some of the guys you'd be tempted to compare him to.

    Amare was 233 in the draft. Howard was 240. Monroe was 247 (at an older age). Drummond weighed in at 279.

    That means that there is a bigger weight difference at the same point between Drummond and Howard as there is between Howard and Tayshaun Prince.


    Here are the notable centers who have weighed in above 279 at the time of the draft:
    - Robert Traylor: 288
    - Demarcus Cousins: 292
    - Shaquille O'Neal: 303
    - Eddy Curry: 301
    - Desagana Diop: 314

    Of those, only Curry, O'Neal, and Diop were taller.

    None of them were even in the same ballpark on the vertical. Cousins was 8" less.

    In terms of the agility measurement, Drummond seems to be one of the best performers in the history of the draft for a big man with a 10.83. In the overall ranking, he is surrounded by guards like Deron Williams and Brandon Knight. The only bigs who were in his realm were Boozer and Nene.

    Body fat wise, he's at 7.5%, which is amazing for his weight. Cousins was twice that.


    Conclusion: one of the best athletes for his size ever. He's big, lean, strong, agile, and can jump high... with big mitts. That's why we drafted him.
  8. blueadams

    blueadams Team Captain

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    Born December 5th 1985. He's 27. And will be 28 and a half this summer.
  9. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here's my Way Too Early analysis:

    1) BK is still really inconsistent (9 assists is good, 4 TOs is not), although he is 11th in the league in assists at 7.3 and is way up in those, so that's something. He's improving. How much he improves remains to be seen.
    2) Stuckey... we all know where Stuckey's at right now; he's playing like a rookie that doesn't have a feel for what he's supposed to be doing. If they're building around Knight, Monroe, and Drummond, then Stuckey is not going to fit going forward and the Pistons are better off trading him to a team where he will fit and recouping at least a draft pick.
    Prince is still living in the past. He looks like an older brother that got dragged into playing with his younger siblings; he wants to be playing with the older kids, even if he's not any better than the ones he's with. Frankly, I don't blame him, because it's got to be hard to be around all this mediocrity and constantly comparing it to the streamlined winning machine he got used to playing with during his first few years in the league. This can't at all be fun for him. He's shooting .500 from three-land, but that doesn't make up for his clear disinterest in all of this. I think Dumars can sell this guy and I think he'll play better for whatever contender he goes to than he is on Detroit.
    3) Maxiell is what he is - he's a bench guy that can come in and give you energy, that will put up 8-10 points and 8-10 boards per 30 minutes, but not much more. He can hit a midrange jumper, he can bang with some bigger guys, and he'll occasionally thunder dunk the crowd back into the game, but he's not going to provide much to win you ballgames on a consistent basis.
    4) Monroe is still inconsistent, and his upside is all based on how clever he can be. He's deceptively sneaky - I still love him stealing the ball at the end of the rookie/sophomore game - and can be a solid, above-average player in the league. He's a glue guy, not a superstar, though, and he is limited in how far a team led by him can take you.
    5) Drummond looks really young. At times he does great things, and it seems that he is learning - his pick-setting has improved drastically in the couple months since he's come into the league, for example - but he has a long way to go. He is an incredible physical specimen, but he doesn't use that athleticism in jaw-dropping ways like McGee or Griffin. It's clearly way too early to make a call on him.
    6) Bynum is developing into a solid backup point guard. He still takes way too much on his shoulders, but he and Knight are 12th and 11th in the league in assists per 48 minutes, so there's virtually no drop-off going from one to the other. He's developing a solid rapport with Drummond, and spreads the court a little more effectively, though he lacks the range that Knight has.
    7 & 8) English and Singler haven't had a ton of time to show much yet, but they're shooting .545 and .571 from three-point land, which gives the bench offense a very balanced attack; these two have value because of it. In fact, it's probably why Bynum's assist numbers are up - he can drive and dish to one of these guys and they're knocking their threes down. They are also putting a lot more effort into the game, which is what a young team like this needs to thrive on. They've both exceeded my expectations.
    9) Jerebko is what Jerebko is - he's a stretch 3/4 that can shoot the three and grab some offensive boards. He plays really hard, but won't cut it as a starter.
    10) Villanueva is a glorified backup. He's a slow 4 that can come in and stretch defenses and shoot some threes.
    As of right now, this is what I see the team possessing as far as effective starters (es), effective backups (eb) and ineffective backups (ib), (Important: I'm ignoring potential, because it's too easy to get caught up in it):
    esPG:
    esSG:
    esSF: Prince
    esPF:
    esC: Monroe
    ebPG: Knight, Bynum
    ebSG: Stuckey, English
    ebSF: Singler, Jerebko
    ebPF: Maxiell, Villanueva
    ebC: Drummond
    ib: Daye
    So the way I see it, the Pistons are forced to start with backup players until they improve, which is why the team really sucks. Now, if we're talking about future starters, I think Knight, English, [draft pick], Monroe, and Drummond can make a very effective, balanced rotation in a couple years. But they're not there right now, and playing them together won't accelerate that process any faster.
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If you are calling Prince an "esSF", I'm sure I could come up with a better acronym for "esSF". The guy is worthless. I don't care what any numbers say. If you watch a game, Prince literally sucks the life out of the game.
  11. McQuack

    McQuack Bench Warmer

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    It might not accelerate the process, but I don't think it would hurt the process either. I'm not saying Pistons should start all their rookies/prospects together and play them 35 min/night, but I think LF could mix up the rotations a bit. Start English over Stuckey on a consistant basis for example. It's not like the outcome of the past games could've ended any worse. And even if they could.. Muhammad or McAdoo would make nice Pistons.
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  12. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    Oh, no doubt about this. I believe, however, that if he was on a contender, we'd be seeing a different story. I think he needs to be traded for everyone's benefit, but you can't deny that he played a major role in helping the Pistons win a championship on a team that was widely acknowledged to have the best starting five in the league, and was a borderline all-star. Has he taken a step backwards? Yeah, probably. But he's already shown that he can be an effective 3 in the league, and him playing on a team that he believes is beneath him - as hard as he may be trying to buy into the rebuilding program - has to be considered.

    I don't know, maybe I'm being hypocritical here when I'm claiming that Prince is an esSF because of what I believe he's capable of and that Knight is only a ebPG because I'm discounting what I believe he can be capable of. But I still think that, as whiny as he comes off, he doesn't need to improve his game to become an effective starter... he just needs a fire lit under his butt.
  13. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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  14. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    So the Pistons only have one player (Drummond) worth keeping?
  15. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    This whole "Prince is probably frustrated" and "Prince needs to go to a contender" notions are starting to get to me. What has Prince done in the past 3-4 years that would make him desirable for a contender? Nothing. He doesn't deserve to be traded to a contender and the organization certainly does not owe him anything like that.

    Also, if he's playing poorly because he's frustrated, then he's an unprofessional jerk. He signed the contract Joe put in front of him, and if there were no other contracts for him out there he has nobody but himself to blame for it. So, he's either an unprofessional, selfish, complacent jerk, or he's really regressed to the point that he's ready for retirement. I want to believe that it is the latter.

    Prince has been one of my favorite players during the glory days. But now, his presence hurts this team. It's pathetic when he's on the floor, especially on the defensive end. If us casual internet fans can see that, so can the GMs. Look at his level of play. No contender would want a guy who is so disinterested in the game. No rebuilding team would want him either considering how big of a mentor he seems to be on such a team. No my friends, Prince is (unfortunately) very much here to stay until his contract becomes an expiring in 3 years. My only hope is that Frank grows a pair to play Prince the role and minutes his effort calls for.
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  16. pass99

    pass99 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Show me a higher level of big man athleticism and I will add him...Kwame no longer counts.

    The real point being is that JD dug this organization so far into the hole that any movement must obtain equal value (and no we are not talking market value) or else you join the perennial losers. Gores, unlike Ford, is ego-centric about his cultivated image. Those long past days of how we love our home-appreciated players are past. Either produce or you are gone. And by-the-way, this applies to all those twenty-year olds. Advancement is a full time occupation. It should have measurable variables, even if only showing small incremental improvements; but GM's no longer can afford teenage baby sitting. The league has destroyed maturation levels. Owners must deal with a realistic conception on their market status. In my opinion, the Pistons need another Trader Jack while holding tight lines.
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I am all for making moves. I believe in the addition by subtraction theory, too. I would argue that there currently a few decent pieces on the team, not just one. Suppose you need 10 players (1st unit/2nd unit) to have a quality team. If the Pistons could add a backup PG, and starting shooting guards and small forwards (bye bye Bynum, Stuckey, Prince), these 10 would put you in the top 5 in the East:

    PG - Knight / new backup PG guy
    SG - New Guy / English
    SF - New Guy / Singler
    PF - Monroe / Jerebko
    C - Drummond / Kravtsov
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  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I really like this team.
    Kenny, Sing and Jeb are all high character lunch-bucket dudes who would be excellent back-ups.
    One of these new guys can likely come from the lotto next Spring.
    The other two can be had in free agency once all of the dead weight gets lopped off this team.

    I still think we'd need one more solid PF/C to come off of the bench to compliment Dre and G-Money.
  19. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Agree with Ball, I think against most teams Jerebko can be the backup PF but we need another PF on the bench for teams with big front lines... If the SG is a real gunner that can get us 20-25 a night I might even say Singler might be the starting SF.

    Our biggest need is an alpha scoring wingman... and after that I say a vet PG.
  20. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd love to root for those guys and that team could actually be a contender if New Guy and New Guy are prime Wade and prime James.

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