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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by pass99, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    When is Zach Lowe going to get serious about analysis and give us a breakdown on how Aron Baynes has killed us this year?
     
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  2. Mossberg

    Mossberg Bench Warmer 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Agreed. If Dre had Baynes' heart, hustle, confidence, killer instict/toughness, and basketball IQ teamed with his athleticism, he would be in the MVP talk perhaps.

    Dre's issues are mostly mental.
     
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    For one game, heck for one half, watch Dre and Baynes run back on defense.

    Watch what happens in the halfcourt when they finally get back, including who had to rotate, and if the opposing Center got open for a shot or rebound.

    Just watch for that and check back in with observations.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This moving goal posts game of whack a mole is really revealing. Ya, but how does he play in crunch time on Tuesdays against playoff bound teams? See he sucks.

    EMPTY REBOUNDING:
    Not sure how this concept came up in relation to Dre

    This season:
    When he's on the court, we get 52.5% of all available rebounds (great- that would put us 3rd in the league if we maintained that).
    When he's off the court, we get 53.0% of all available rebounds (fantastic- that would also put us 3rd in the league if we maintained that).

    So, in summary, when Dre is in the game against other starters, we dominate the boards. When Baynes comes in against other bench players, we dominate the boards. I don't see anything empty about any of it.


    Last season:
    When Dre was on the court, we got 53.3% of the rebounds.
    When Dre was off the court, we got 52.6% of the rebounds.

    Same exact story, except that we did better with Dre than without.


    The difference between the seasons is that our starting unit isn't causing as many missed shots this year with our crappy defense (mainly due to the PG drop off). So, the mix between defensive and offense boards has changed. The less our opponents miss, the smaller the available defensive chances there are compared to offensive. Defensive rebs are much easier to get.

    There is tracking for "contested" rebounds. For contested defensive rebounds, Dre is #2 in t he league behind Whiteside.
    For contested offensive rebounds, Dre is #1 in the league.


    So, in summary, our own fans are wondering if the league's top rebounder of contested rebounds is an empty rebounder, despite the fact that the team rebounds at a near league high when he's on the court.


    Here are some comments from the coach on the subject:
    This is a team without a real power forward. Leuer and Tobias are what would traditionally be a Rasheed Wallace or a Karl Malone. So, the system that we have set up requires Dre to do the rebounding himself, which he is proving he can do.
     
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  5. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    If he had those traits he would have been the first or second pick in the draft and never been a Piston.
     
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  6. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I am more interested in rhetoric than dialectic these days.

    Watch Dre run back on defense. Just watch it for a game. Watch what he does when he finally gets back in the half court defense.
     
  7. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    That was the knock on him...low motor. Then he showed up and seemed to disprove the critics. He had multiple steals, thunderous dunks and energized the team. Now, he has reverted to post-contract, low motor Dre. He doesn't even shave his shoulders anymore. He did enough to get paid. Now he is hairy shoulder, take-it-easy Dre.
     
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  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    HUSTLE:

    This is also tracked in many different ways. I'm looking at only our team and on a per 48 minute basis so that bench players aren't discriminated against for lack of PT.

    Screen Assists:
    1) Baynes- 8.7
    2) Drummond- 6.8

    Deflections:
    1) Drummond- 4.6
    2) Stanely J- 3.6
    3) KC Pope- 3.3
    ...
    13) Baynes- 1.3

    Loose Balls Recoverd:
    1) Ish Smith- 1.6
    2) KC Pope- 1.4
    3) Drummond- 1.2
    ...
    9) Baynes- 0.9

    Average Speed:
    Drummond = 4.01 MPH (4.12 on offense and 3.89 on defense)
    Baynes = 4.00 MPH (4.12 on offense and 3.88 on defense)

    So, if Baynes gets back faster on defense, then he's doing everything else slower.


    Interior Offensive Efficiency (includes free throw shooting):
    On post touches this year, here is how it looks for totals:
    Drummond: 474 post touches where he didn't pass it out. 500 points. 1.05 points per touch.
    Baynes: 161 post touches where he didn't pass it out. 165 points. 1.02 points per touch.



    None of this is meant to disparage Baynes. I'm just using him as a comp since he's the gold standard.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I've watched 99% of the games since they invented league pass. However, I will admit that even though I'm very perceptive, I did not realize that Drummond averaged 0.01 MPH greater speed than Baynes. Maybe I should stop following the bouncing ball and just stare at our centers with a stopwatch.
     
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  10. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

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    How many times do you watch each game? That may be the issue.
     
  11. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Count the frames, not the seconds.
     
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Keep in mind that for speed, it is the eye in the sky watching and tracking the players. It never takes a night off. It never posts "I'm out. I can't believe I watched this late into the game."

    Although I'm not sure what good it does to have 2 sensors watching the top of the scoreboard. Maybe that is why it is missing Baynes' hustle on transition. Once they fix that blindspot, he'll rise to the top I'm sure.

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    One problem with Dre's defense isn't his positioning. He ball-watches. He gets so fixated on the guy dribbling the ball that he doesn't see his cover cutting to the basket for an easy dunk/layup. Teams score a lot of easy baskets against us by establishing their big man high on the elbow on the weak side, having their guard dribble the ball to get Dre's attention and then feed the big man cutting to the basket.
     
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  14. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I am not kidding, that would probably be a good idea.

    Lee has shown me the way. You have to fixate on a particular player with all of your bias already set, then you are guaranteed to see what you expect to see.
     
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  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 5x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well played, guys.
     
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