The really sad thing - Fixing this team wouldn't be that hard

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by blueadams, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Thank you. I read it somewhere after Cheeks got canned how Dumars probably would have been let go also if Gores felt there was a capable #2 person already with the team.

    Do the Pistons even have a #2 man or is just Joe and his Magic 8-Ball sitting up in his office? He probably has all the advanced stat sites blocked from everyone's computers.

    This debacle isn't on Mo, it is on the Pistons ownership and management group. It's not 1989 anymore.
    The Panda, Nemo and roscoe36 like this.
  2. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,789
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Nice post Ernie.......
    Ernie the Slow Adult likes this.
  3. Woody

    Woody All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    1,071
    Likes Received:
    348
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Bloomington, IL
    And the management group has changed twice since then. Davidson, Mrs. Davidson, Gores. Dumars is the only constant.
  4. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    As a show of RESPECT of all the things Joe D has done for the PISTONS, he shall not be FIRED. He will not get his contract renewed, that's all.
    Nemo likes this.
  5. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    790
    I've been going back and forth about this in my own head, this idea of how far the Pistons are away, of what "fixing" this team would involve.

    They need a coach that's willing to alter his starting lineup on a nightly basis - and I'm including Monroe/Smith/Drummond. Baseball teams have been doing this for decades - left-handed hitters against righties, and vice-versa - so why couldn't it work on the basketball court? Position your starting lineup so that it maximizes your strengths while minimizing the strengths of the other team - if you're playing a team that can gun from outside then you're going to want Jennings/Pope/Singler to start, because Pope and Singler offer your best defense against good three-point shooters (it's no coincidence that the pairing of Pope and Singler is so effective). If, on the other hand, you're playing a team like Memphis or Indiana that likes to live inside, then by all means go with the Hydra.

    From this standpoint, it's flat-out inexcusable to run out Bynum and Stuckey on the court at the same time. They do basically the same thing on offense, and neither one plays defense. There's a reason that this is the worst +/- pairing on the team, and by a significant margin - every time this duo touches the court it minimizes their assets and maximizes the way that opponents can exploit it.

    To a lesser degree, Greg Monroe/Andre Drummond is the same problem (and everyone in the basketball world knows it). While Monroe is an excellent offensive player, and Drummond is a better defensive player, both require the ball in the paint to be successful. Smith, arguably, should operate under the same principal, but he's more versatile than either of these guys.

    This team is wonky, and they just need to own up to that fact. We all know they have a lot of talent, but their coaching staff has been unable to wrangle that talent into a cohesive machine. Well, I submit that there is no cohesive machine to be built out of this. Success with this roster requires a game-to-game approach, and will take a coach that plans all of his lineups in advance and knows the strengths and weaknesses of those lineups cold. It requires a coach with the eye of a sniper, one that can recognize where he can exploit certain matchup advantages and minimize all of the glaring weaknesses that this team possesses (i.e. free throw shooting, three point shooting, and perimeter defense).

    It also requires a coach that can create a solid offensive system that the team can operate within. When they go into isolation mode (usually with Smith and Jennings), they crumble. At this point in the season it's too late to install that offensive system, so they're going to have to rely on that isolation mode when defenses tighten up. That means no more Bynumite or Stuckey in the fourth, because that's a great way to lose the game. It means lineups that feature Monroe in the post and guys like Singler and Pope - whoever can shoot the 3 - on the court spreading it out. It means slowing the game down and playing conservatively. It means lots of Jorts.

    This team is very capable of sneaking into the playoffs, which should very definitively be their goal - they're not going to out-suck the other tanking teams, so they should just consider their pick gone at this point. But it requires them to play (and be coached) smarter than they have been, and I don't know if that's going to happen this year.
    The Panda and kpaav like this.
  6. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,355
    Likes Received:
    352
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    When you have several teams tanking every year it should be a flag that something is wrong with the system. This rewarding the worst teams and punishing the best model was designed before salary caps and free agency when the small markets needed an edge.

    I would like a draft system where even the world champs have a shot at the #1 pick. Re-design the lottery system where the losing teams still get an edge but not nearly as much and all 30 teams can be in the pool. It would put an end to tanking and lead to a much better game in my opinion.
  7. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    790
    I've said it in another thread, but what the league needs is: the top 7 teams in each conference to get an automatic bid, the other 8 teams in each conference stage a 3-day play-in tournament for the 8th seed in which each game has the teams starting with a point total equal to half of their regular season win totals (i.e. if Detroit ends up with 32 wins, then it starts every play-in game with 16 points). Then the number of ping pong balls each team gets in the lottery is equal to 1 plus the number of play-in games they win, and ALL 14 slots are drawn. All problems solved.
    Walter and The Panda like this.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,699
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Could a team like Miami no show for the entire season to ensure health, then blow through the play in bracket, get the most lotto balls, and win the ship too?
  9. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,789
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    Before that would happen, I think the PF.com would bring the plight of "tanking' to the nation and save mankind from such horrid events.
  10. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    If it is so easy to switch your starting 5 to exploit match ups then why doesn't every team do it?

    I'd love to hear our reaction after we lose a game with an odd group of starters and the coach said he got the idea watching a San Diego Padres game.
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    To me this team shows what a great job Stan Van Gundy did with his 3 ball Magic teams.

    It is not easy to buck the norm and go with a non-traditional group to close games.
  12. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2006
    Messages:
    11,789
    Likes Received:
    1,252
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lake Elmo
    The '88-89' Pistons coulda been that team. They had 10 legit NBA starters...and Fennis
  13. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    790
    You're forgetting a few things...

    1) It would be a three-day tournament, followed by a five-game playoff series against the other best team in your conference; four games in five days and at least 6 games in 9 days. That would be taxing even for the best teams.
    2) It's single-elimination. If Miami blows a single game in the play-in, they're out of the playoffs. Too risky.
    3) There's nothing theoretically stopping other teams from doing the same thing. If Miami's the only team to do it, then hat's off to them. But if Miami and Indiana were to both do it, then one of them would be SOL, and I believe that threat is enough to keep them both from doing it.
    4) The players and coaches don't care about next year's draft picks; half of the players will typically be playing for another team anyway, and if the coach manages to lose in that tourney with a very good team, he's out of a job. GM, possibly, too.
    5) Each win is only an extra ping pong ball. You win all three, you get four out of the 30 total balls, which doesn't really give you great odds for a top-3 type of player. Over the course of 14 lottery selections, it should mean your team gets a better pick, but it's no guarantee.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,340
    Likes Received:
    2,699
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Ok, I'll vote for it.
    Laimbrane likes this.
  15. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,355
    Likes Received:
    352
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    When do they play it? Seems like it would take a lot of time.
  16. linwood

    linwood All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    4,368
    Likes Received:
    1,353
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    This thread has really gone off topic.
  17. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2012
    Messages:
    1,939
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Gender:
    Male
    Probably because everyone realised that fixing an NBA team that is at .350 isn't simple outside of adding superstars.
    coynejeremy and linwood like this.
  18. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    790
    Well, you could always play Mitchell instead of Singler and Bynum.
    coynejeremy and linwood like this.
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    14,758
    Likes Received:
    2,856
    Location:
    Michigan
  20. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    2,951
    Likes Received:
    1,139
    He speaks the truth. Get rid of Joe now and hire Barkley as the interim GM. He could even keep his gig at TNT.

Share This Page