The Point Guard Obsession

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Kerghan, May 24, 2013.

  1. Kerghan

    Kerghan First Round Draft Pick

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    The Point Guard obsession

    Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook, Ty Lawson, Stephen Curry.

    I am sure everyone recognises those names and so they should as they are some of the best point guards the NBA currently has.

    Zero!! That is the number of championship rings that they all have combined.

    Now I am not here to tell you that you shouldn't want any of those players, that would be a stupid argument. But what I am here to argue is whether you need a superstar PG to lead you to an NBA championship.

    Sure you can always say that injuries or crooked NBA referees have been the main reasons why none of those guys have an NBA championship but the fact still remains the majority of NBA championships are not won by teams that are led by their PG.

    Almost all of those players are the unquestioned best player and leaders of their teams with perhaps Russell Westbrook being the exception. (Steve Nash was in his Phoenix days)

    Here are a few of other names for you to consider - Rajon Rondo, Tony Parker, Chauncey Billups, Derek Fisher, Mario Chalmers.

    11 NBA championships between them if my maths is correct. And you can make a very strong argument that none of them were the unquestioned leaders of their teams. Important pieces sure but are those the names you first think of when you think of those teams championship years?

    I would bet the names James, Wade, Duncan, O'Neal, Bryant, Wallace, Garnett, Pierce are the ones that come to mind first.

    So with that being said doesn't it seem strange to any of you that the NBA is obsessed with the next great point guard when so few of them actually win you an NBA title. And last time I checked wasn't winning the NBA title what it is all about?

    Just take a look at the last 4 teams left in this years playoffs. San Antonio is the only one with a point guard who is likely a household name.

    This isn't about not having a good point guard, a winning team needs a good point guard to guide the squad around the court, but it certainly isn't the be all and end all.

    If the Pistons want to get back to the NBA championship they are going to get there on the mighty shoulders of Andre Drummond.

    If you can get a great PG great, go for it. But don't build your franchise on it.
  2. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Facilitators are rarely stars. It helps to have a good PG though. Billups and Thomas were unquestionably the leaders of our championship teams.

    In today's NBA, it's tough to isolate PGs. The days of spreading the floor and letting Isiah go to work are over. It's nearly impossible to post up your guards nowadays. The rules have changed.

    You need to be able to get in the paint and spread the floor. Whether it's Lebron James or Hakeem, you need your points in the paint. Everybody else spreads the floor.
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  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The issue might be that pg centric teams are too predictable and are easily stymied by a great defense do to their one point of distribution. the triangle goes the other route and worked pretty well without pgs. we have good passing bigs, so a agree that going another direct is feasible. maybe get the best defensive pg possible and don't worry so much about their true pg skills... ala knight.
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  4. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    The teams winning alot of those championships have had players like Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan and LeBron. If we would have had a PG of that caliber (like Magic), that team might have won a bunch of championships. The data tells me that all time greats win alot of championships, not that only all time great SG:s, SF:s, PF:s and C:s win alot of championships. As great as CP3 is, I would put him in the tier below those guys and I would certainly not put anyone of Steve Nash, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, John Wall, Kyrie Irving, Russell Westbrook, Ty Lawson or Stephen Curry in that tier.
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think this discussion illustrates how many factors have to be right to win a title. Steve Nash has been an amazing player, as has Jason Kidd, and neither have a title, or look likely to win one soon.

    It takes a great front office, the right culture in the locker room and organization, coaching, training, good luck with injuries, drafting, free agency, trades, etc. Then you gotta find 8 guys that can play as a team.

    It's no small feat to be great.
  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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  7. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Oh yeah, that. lol
  8. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    If we were playing some kind of word association game and someone said 'Jason Kidd',
    'champion' wouldn't be the first word that came to my mind either.
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  9. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

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    I remember an article I read about who were the last point guard in the last championship teams.

    2012 - Miami - Chalmers
    2011 - Dallas - Kidd
    2010 - Lakers - Fisher
    2009 - Lakers - Fisher
    2008 - Boston - Rondo (the 2008 Rondo, not the actual Rondo)
    2007 - San Antonio - Parker (MVP of that series)
    2006 - Miami - Jason Williams (Old Payton off the bench)
    2005 - San Antonio - Parker (Duncan MVP)
    2004 - Detroit - Billups (MVP)
    2003 - San Antonio - Parker (Duncan MVP)

    An All-star point guard is not needed. BUT that does not mean that to win a championship you need to NOT have a good point guard. Do you understand?

    Westbrook, Wall, Irving, Curry, Lawson, Rose ... they are all young man! (Lawson is not that young but because he spent a few years in North Carolina) Give this young point guards a few more years and maybe 2 of this 5 will have a ring.

    I repeat, I do not believe that we need an All-star point guard, but I can name you 7, 8 players of the same position that doesn't have a ring and make the same case about them that you are making about the point guards...
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  10. McQuack

    McQuack Bench Warmer

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    Ever since the 08 season, Rondo have been the Celtics. And I feel like Tony Parker have been the leader (atleast the best player on the team) since he won the Finals MVP in '07.

    But as I see it: You need a good guard/small forward that can handle the ball and make plays. Doesn't have to be a point guard (see: LeBron, Wade, George, Kobe, Ginobili, Harden, George, Iggy etc) - But it's much easier to find a playmaking PG than on other positions.
  11. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Its like Dennis Johnson was eclipsed by Larry Bird. The guy was no slouch.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    the question may better be, how many championship teams had a pg as their highest paid player.
  13. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I'm looking forward to your answer.
  14. Susie914

    Susie914 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Every time I see Jason Kidd, I remember the playoff's a few years ago when everytime he made a play, they would show his strange looking kid in the audience, and I do mean strange.
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  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm not really sure how to research this one easily.
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    linwood likes this.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    bam. good to know.
  18. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    How hard does Chalmers need to work.
  19. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Not hard at all. He is a top 5 PG in this league.
  20. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    could you list your top 7-10 please?

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