Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mark V, Nov 16, 2012.
Stuckey is not eligible for amnesty.
Let's not get carried away.
If by "playing well" you mean Charlie's hit a few shots and had his total lack of defense hidden by Andre Drummond; than yeah, he's "played well".
I don't see it like that.
I see a guy that will be long gone when the Pistons are a competitive team in a couple years. I see a guy that is nothing but a bad influence for our young core. I see a guy that does very little but hit a couple threes on the rare occasion that his shot is "on". I see a guy who is geting in the way of Daye, Jerebko, Drummond and TRG.
Every time they show a camera shot of BoT talking to Andre on the sidelines, I throw up in my mouth a little bit.
Stats be dammned!
Tay Prince might actually be doing more to impede the progress of this team than Stuckey and Charlie combined.
Yes, Tay is a better basketball player than Rodney Stuckey of Charlie Garbage. He'd be a solid role player on a contending team and a true difference maker. On the Pistons? He's horrible!
...and like Stuck and BoT, Tay's getting in the way of younger players who have a chance of "being there" when the Pistons hit their stride.
Tay's not a veteran leader, calming influence or team captain. He's a ball-stopping malcontent who disrupts any hope of offensive flow.
This team needs to stop chasing the 8th seed and start chasing a 2015 NBA championship.
Collider, BoT and Mr Taysholation are prime addition by subtraction candidates!
I didn't know Stuckey was seeing a therapist about anger management issues:
I don't think that any of our players rise to the level of needing to be paid to leave. We don't have any locker room cancers here. If they hurt the team and are untradable, then just use them as practice dummies and deep bench insurance.
It does seem like it is about time to give Kratsov a test drive so that he's able to anchor the bench's defense when Drummond graduates to the starting role.
I wonder if Kravtsov's dad is complaining to the Russian newspapers.
With Charlie, he is 2nd on the team in +/- behind Daye and he is above breakeven. How harmful can he be to the team when we are actually ahead with him on the court? He's a flawed player, but he fits in nicely with our bench unit due to our specific personnel. As Lawrence Frank would define him, he is a "specialist" and not a "rotation player".
With him gone, you'd have to replace the bench PF with a guy who can't shoot at all and it might make Bynum and Drummond way less effective.
When you look at the stats for Stuckey and Knight, it is pretty much a dead heat.
Per 36 min:
Knight: 15.8 points, 4.9 assists, 3.4 turnovers, 13.2 PER
Stuckey: 14.5 points, 5.1 assists, 2.2 turnovers, 13.1 PER
Stuckey scores 1.3 less points, but has a hair higher assist rate and earns back his scoring with 1.2 less turnovers. Stuckey's turnover rate is one of the lowest on the team and he does a ton of ball handling. Keep in mind that his turnovers include his offensive fouls, which are also way less than you would think (10 on the season compared to 10 for Knight). Bynum has only 4, but that is another topic. Stuckey blocks shots at 3 times the rate of Knight, but I would not argue that his defense is better... although it may be better in different ways that favor strength over quickness.
As far as shot frequency, when you count shots where the player got fouled as attempts, then Knight attempts 15.10 per game and Stuckey attempts 15.15.
In summary, Knight is barely more efficient as an overall scorer (hit less 2's, twice as many 3's, and less FTs), but he gives it up with his higher turnover rate. It is debatable whether his scoring mix is more favorable than Stuckey's in a playoff environment. Do you want a guy who can stretch the floor and hit 3's as well as split defenders or do you want a guy that gets in the paint and uses his strength to get tough baskets and draw fouls? Will Knight's turnover problem get exposed more heavily against a team like the Heat on the road in the playoffs?
The reason I favor Knight is that he is younger and on the rise, but to be honest with ourselves, there is not a huge current advantage in the level of play of our starting PG compared to a guy that a lot of people here are suggesting should be traded for draft picks. Reality is less severe than we are making it out to be.
Not sure about that but Pravdas lead columnist complained about Krakatov not getting the same number of minutes as the other centers on the roster.
Does Pravdas have the same credibility as Forbes?
Source: Pravda January 10, 2013 morning edition.
Me too. I love the few times I have seen Drum give BoT a quizzical dismissive look though.
Because he doesn't pass!
YES. I thought I was the only one who saw this. I've not been hearing this from anyone else anywhere. FINALLY.
Then how does he manage to have a higher assist rate than our starting point guard? The two are very related, which explains the popularity of the ast/tov ratio.
I disagree. There major difference is that Knight hasn't been stinking up the joint for 5 years while having the attitude that he's an all-star. Furthermore, Frank has no problem yanking Knight when he struggles, but somehow, he's contractually obligated to play Stuckey 30 mins a night. Win or lose. Make or Miss.
Knight might turn the ball over a bit more, but he's at least making an effort to run the offense and pass to guys (even IF they are bad decisions sometimes), instead of acting like Spaulding is a synonym for Stuckey and launching himself into the opposition defense. Let alone the fact that Knight has been fantastic from 3pt range and Stuckey can't get the ball in The Palace while standing at half court. Even if Knight has bad nights defensively he doesn't make a career out of camping in the paint and getting beat on skip passes for 3 or leaving the man WITH THE BALL to go guard someone else who's already being covered.
At the end of last season, I was willing to give Stuckey a pass as long as he continued playing within the team like last year...not only has he NOT continued, he's gotten WORSE. ...and for $8M+ a year? He can't be gone fast enough for me.
Nothing to back it up really - more an off hand comment of Stuckey's colliding ways and that from general play it appears to me that BK tries to find/use other players more.
Those stats are this season PER36? Maybe (again, not research to back it up) Stuckey's assists are more because the offense in the second unit is more about dishing out to open players who shoot immediately (Daye, BoT, Singler) rather than dropping it off to Monroe or Tay for pump fakes and back downs.
To me Stuckey has been the face of the Pistons during these losing years. I dont care if he can't be amnestied or
whatever - just get rid of him. The day Stuckey is off the team will greatly improve my fan experience.
Something is just wrong with him. How can anyone want to go the bench knowing what was expected of him this year.
Plus to think that if we really did have a nice 17PPG scorer ( like Dumars thought we were getting ) we would be in the
8th playoff spot right now and done with this lottery stuff.
Get rid of him so we can all move on ( assuming no further 1st round picks are traded to do so )
What can you point to that says that Knight passes the ball more than Stuckey? If the assist rate is lower and 3 of his fellow starters are in the bottom 3 on the team in scoring rate, then where's the evidence that his non assist passes do any good at all. If they are hockey assists, then you'd expect higher scoring output from his wingmen.
Again, the reference to launching himself into the defense is mentioned, but his 10 charges matches Knight's 10 charges.
Your allusion to Knight's 3-point efficiency and Stuckey's inability to get the ball inside the Palace from half court are not borne out in the numbers: Stuck scores slightly less on almost exactly the same number of shot attempts per minute. The efficiency difference is identical to the efficiency lost through turnovers (assuming a possession is worth about 1 point, which it is).
Among point guards in the NBA, Knight ranks dead last in assist/tov ratio at 1.45. He's 49th. That means that every single starting point guard and every single backup point guard (categorized as a PG) is better than him.
I'm not arguing that Stuckey is the man, just that the guy that we're comparing him to isn't either.
I don't like Stuckey as a defender.
But you are right, in a sense, but stats can't show everything. Stuckey really does hurt the flow of the game. I think that more than anything, he is a poor fit to this team, rather than a poor player.
Part of it Ta, is that Stuck takes away from everyone else on the floor. He is not a ball mover on offense. He is either attacking the rim, or attacking and droppong it to someone. He is never the " extra " pass guy. Or maybe its just the way Im watching the games when hes on the floor.
Neither guy is the extra pass guy. They are both score first combo guards. Bynum is a score first guard too, but he at least uses his scoring ability to create easy baskets for others. Knight and Stuckey pass the ball mostly when they hit a dead end or when they are ineffectively dumping it to somebody within the designed play (usually Monroe or Tay).
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