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Should we keep Cbill#1...?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TheeTFD, Jul 24, 2006.

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Keep C. Billups?

  1. YES, no doubt about it

    57.1%
  2. YES, but I draw the at $20mil. per

    19.0%
  3. YES, so we can sign and trade

    16.7%
  4. NO, Dumars can find interchangable Point Guards.

    7.1%
  1. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Robert Michael - Actually, we do agree on a few things. I hate to see the Pistons lose a player and get nothing in return. Also, I like to see a guy get his contract extended early so the team doesn't have to deal with these issues like it did with Ben. I like how the Pistons took care of Tayshaun Prince, for example. I think the only thing we disagree about is whether Ben Wallace is worth $60 million. Time will tell who is correct on that one.
     
  2. Dlev59

    Dlev59 Bench Warmer Moderator

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    I agree Dre. CB may be motivated to have a better year than last year. How can he have a better year than last? Not get fatigued during the post season.

    CB is no fool. He knows this is a put up or shut up year for him. His future earnings are riding on his performance.

    Will this be motivation FOR HIM to go to the hole and be among the league leaders in FTA???
     
  3. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Bill- glad we agree on most of this.

    I can understand Joe D not wanting to pay Ben the loot. He should have traded him and took the heat for it.

    This is what I think about Billups, too. If you are going to let them get to unrestricted status you have to pay more. That's the trade off. Joe knew this, I'm sure. He just miscalculated Ben's heart and Chicago's willingness to overpay, and that is not something he can afford to do in this case.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    That's one way to look at it.

    I think the question should be, "Was losing Ben worth saving $60 million?".

    As you said, time will judge.

    Re: CBillups, that magic luxury tax threshold value holds all answers, but first we have to know what the roster looks like after next season and the draft.
     
  5. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Its kinda hard to trade Big Ben on a championship run.

    CB might be easier to trade outright but the situation is different now than it was several months ago.
     
  6. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy- I think that is the case with Ben. Joe was in a very tough spot. I'm hoping he learns from it and doesn't allow guys he wants to keep to become unrestricted. Play with fire get burned.
     
  7. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    That's what I was thinking when I said we should have paid him. The difference between what we offered and what he received from Chi-town was about 12 million. Do you let your heart and soul walk for that?

    If we wanted to change identities we should have done it in a proactive manner, not have it forced on us in a humiliating fashion and losing the DPOY for nothing. That's just plain bad management.
     
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Not for $20mil, but $10 to pushing towards Sheed kind of numbers - three years would be ideal, but perhaps not to CBs liking.

    Unless the Pistons dig out the next Chris Paul in time for camp or they somehow have the chance to grab someone like CP - both seem highly unlikely - then either Chauncey stays or it's serious rebuilding time. If he goes, trade away Rip or Tay for picks and wait for Sheed to come off the books and start over.

    I get down on CB sometimes, particularly around his dropoff in shooting this year and his often lacadasical rebounding, but he is a top five PG and well, there are only four others and they're pretty much spoken for.
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    How much do you pay for a guy with questionable Pistons-DNA?

    Someone will make him a $14 ~ $15 million dollar offer (speculating, I don't know what the forward cap #s will start to look like until the season starts).

    Is CB worth $14 million? Is he worth $12 million?

    Remember, we're likely going into tax territory for him, or subtracting talent from the roster via trade to avoid the tax.
     
  10. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    RM, you gotta help me out. What would you do? Make up a scenario that would work out. For me, Joe was in the Kobayashi-Moru. The only mistake was trading darko and arroyo for peanuts.

    I am sure someone will offer CB 15 mil...even if its only to force us to over pay or use mookie and hunter.
     
  11. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Assuming he does well in the first half of next season, and you really believe someone might go up into the $14-15 range, then option one would be to offer a preemptive extension starting around $13-14. He might be happy just to get it done.
     
  12. Hobbs

    Hobbs First Round Draft Pick

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    An extension is not a possibility. It's against NBA rules to give an extension that is higher than a like 15% raise over the last year of the old deal (I can't remember the exact % but it isn't much). Billups would be an idiot to sign a deal with that restriction because he'd be leaving millions and millions on the table.

    This is also why signing Ben to an extension was never a possibility.

    If you're going to point out Prince's extension, then you need to know that rookie contracts are different and can offer higher extensions.

    So, in short, Billups isn't signing an extension.
     
  13. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Damn, I hate NBA contract rules. They all seem to be set up specifically to stop you from doing the thing you most want to do.

    So, Tay, Wade, LBJ et al got those extensions because they were on rookie contracts.
     
  14. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy,

    By not resigning Ben earlier and letting him play out his contract, Joe put himself in a bad spot. Tough decision to dump Ben, but then wasn't it tough to give up on Darko?

    It would have been better to keep underachieving Darko and trading Ben than to trade Darko and not resign Ben. Then we would have all the assets from the Ben trade and Darko to package for something better than the first round pick from Orlando that we have now.

    The title run and the continuity of the starting five blinded Joe to the real weakness of his hand.

    I agree on Billups. That's why I say- make up your mind now about paying him. You can't wait to see how things work out. Pay him or trade him.

    Hoping your players will sign with you for less is stupid. This is business. Joe's moves have been very suspect. He is getting worked lately. Not at all proactive.

    Darko demands trade so dump him for nothing. Ben wants more than we offer so let him walk for nothing. Can't get Pcryizabilla, so sign Nazr. Bonzi wants too much, so sign Murray. Delfino wants out?- if it's true I'll trade him.

    Joe is running the business like a rookie GM. Nothing that has happened since he signed Flip has been a part of his master plan. Where is the brilliance?

    I am hoping Ben's departure is a wake up call to Joe D. Billups is next.
     
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    And logic, if there is anything worse than NBA contract rules, it's logic.
     
  16. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    I agree with most of the things you are pointing out but that championship run thing is a big sticking point with me. The only way you can get him to sign is offering a MAX contract. Would you do it? For How many years?

    A chance to get a title is a rare thing. There is also the psychology of almost winning it to factor in. If you had a chance to win 1 ring and go through 10 years of mediocrity, you take it because chances are you will have 11 years of mediocrity otherwise.

    I am starting to agree with you on CB tho. (not that I disagreed...i don't have much of an opinion on that.)
     
  17. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Slippy- I am more inclined to have paid Ben what Chicago offered than to open the bank for Billups. I think Billups is going to be exposed as a weak defender this year. He can't penetrate without losing the handle. He is too slow to run the break and he makes poor decisions with ball. His shot was broken in the playoffs. I hated his comments about not being bothered about getting eliminated and being tired.

    The problem is, however, Joe has much less to work with now that we lost Ben and dumped Arroyo and Darko for next to nothing.

    Who knows what Billups is worth on the trade market? His salary means we won't get equal value and we will need to get picks. Who will play his position?

    If you won't pay your best players and you won't play your young players, who will want to play here?

    I still think we are one of the best teams in the East. The question is, for how long?
     
  18. max

    max All-Star

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    Paul Pierce got 20mil a year. Its crazy out there. Too many dang teams out there competing driving prices up. And the agents always use the worst absolute lopsided contract to establish value.

    You get these min-level stars making more than the franchise players but what can you do? Only seems to be a couple of decent FA's every year and more teams with money to spend.

    I think Davison is going to have to comeup with a 4 year 55-60mil deal to keep him. I think he will. Its going to look like amature hour if we lose our 2 best players in subsequent years.
     
  19. Robert Michael

    Robert Michael First Round Draft Pick

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    Max- if they pay him, I'm fine with that. If they trade him, I'm fine with that. I can not accept letting him walk for nothing in return.

    I don't think Joe worries about what he gets in return, he simply thinks he will be able to restock by signing FA's. Maybe he is right, and I need to get a clue.

    Losing Ben bummed me out. If we lose Billups for nothing I am going to :doh: :doh: :doh: until I am black and blue.
     
  20. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i think ben was exposed as a weak defender last year.

    at least billups can provide us some offense in return for not being the greatest defender. he was a league leader in assist to turnover ratio so i wouldn't say he makes poor decisions with the ball. he was tired during the playoffs hence his shot wasn't falling. cb's production went downwards after the arroyo trade that's a fact. chauncey's game isn't based on athleticism that's why it makes more sense to pay him than ben. chauncey isn't on the decline and when he does go there it will be more gradual than ben's 60mil decline.
     

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