Sacramento Jan 18th, 8:00 PM

Discussion in 'January 2008' started by Dlev59, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Everything went according to Flip's plan. Starters got overplayed, rookies barely got any playing time. The bottom line is: Flip doesn't seem to be getting the point that this town cares about playoffs not regular season wins. Stuckey seems to have lost all the offensive speed. He indeed turned into Chauncey 2 where he just stands on the top of the key dribbling and then just throwing the ball to Sheed or Rip. He's not doing anything to initiate the offense, and he's not looking to run or drive. He is just tentative. Great job, Flip.
  2. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I was openly rooting against the Pistons by the end of the first half. It is hard to put into words how angry Flip Saunders makes me. If I wanted to watch someone stupid do stupid things, I would go look in the mirror. He might as well take a metal chair to one of the starters knees at this point.
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Well that was the first game in quite some time where the bench completely lost the game. Chauncey had one of his best games of the year, flirting with a triple double. 11 FT's was great. He was going inside and scoring from the outside. His 3 point shot is what really separates him from Stuckey right now. Chauncey is actually having an easier time getting to the rim because they are paranoid that he'll hit 3's unless they cheat out on him.

    Sheed was pretty bad tonight with his shot selection. I don't mind it when he shoots 3's, but those flippant fade aways from 2-3 feet outside the line are just not going for him. And most of the time, he could just creep up and shoot the standard 3.

    Anyways, I wish the bench would have played more, but in this case, I don't think that it would have resulted in a win. But that's OK. I would rather take a good loss with a full team effort and development than what we had tonight.

    One other thing, Jarvis Hayes misses almost every single shot when he isn't 100% set. It's getting ugly.
  4. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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  5. max

    max All-Star

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    Did we see the same game? The same 2nd quarter that Stucky played in and was totally lit up by their guards? What was Flip supposed to do put him back in against Kevin Martin and Mike Bibby in the 3rd? Well he kind of did.

    My point is? To keep Stucky in there for 10 mins when he was getting stuck by their guards, taking ill advised shots and not making any of them was generous. It was purely a case of player development. If he had played better then he would have gotten more time. That 20 MPG is not to be handed down it has to be earned. We got a taste of what real player develpment is like. Its not a magical formula. You put the guy in for as long as the team can hold its own.
  6. max

    max All-Star

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    I agree. And the starters are not total wusses either. I think they can handle a game another game tomorrow after that 3 day rest. Its the 4 game in 6 night deals that are the killer.

    Remember. The Pistons had a pretty good record on the 2nd game of back-backs from last season to early this season. They can handle more than we give them credit for.

    You want something to complain about? Why is that hack Wally dude in there , playing out of positon, instead of Amir? That I can agree with. Last thing this team needs is another 3-pt shooting PF.

    Anyway. I am out. Another game in 17 more hours. Team will be motivated for the Bulls. I guaransheed it.. Rack it.
  7. FreshPrince22

    FreshPrince22 Bench Warmer

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    Where has Rodney's aggressiveness gone? Ever since he has gotten into full-contact practices, he never drives the ball. It's always dribble up and pass to Rip for an Iso. Why is he even playing if that is his role? He's not out there for his D or his spot up jumper. He's in the game to attack off the dribble. I just don't understand Flip's gameplan here. Does he play against players strengths just for kicks?
  8. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    Flip can't coach at all. I remember the starters getting worse the 2nd half of the 1st year when Flip started implementing his "playbook". Same thing seems to have happened to Stuckey.

    I just skimmed through this thread so i'm probably repeating some things, but he's clueless. I give him props for going to AA and Hermann, but he has no idea what works and what doesn't.

    AA was playing solid. Bench him.

    Hermann playing solid. Bench him.

    He then puts in Stuckey wayyy too late in the 4th quarter, and puts Jarvis Hayes back in who has been sucking all game. Apparently Walter cannot play the 3. Also pulling Max again for Dice; when it's obvious who should be finishing games.

    Stuckey got lit up, and Hayes was usual defensive self. He has no idea what creates a winning basketball team. The starters got overplayed. The palace looked mostly empty again. The Cavs are 7 games back. Amir got no playing time yet again.

    Good times.
  9. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    hayes is 2-for-23 in his last 4 games.

    i realized why i was so p1ssed off at the palace last night, and why i got worked up again when i got home. i was so mad because artest was being a d*ck the entire game, blowing kisses at the crowd a lot more times than you saw on TV. that would've been fine if we won. but the pistons didn't respond and didn't care, and that's what upset me.

    if that happened during the Bad Boys era, we would've won by 30 last night and shoved it in his face. these pistons didn't care. they didn't care that the one player the crowd hates more than anyone was back at the palace, they didn't care that he was mocking the fans, and they didn't care that they had one of the best regular season crowds all year. i know a lot of people that went to the game who might attend 1 game a year (or less), and they had to pay to see that? if i was a player on the bench that would've been all the motivation i needed.

    chuck daly was on local radio this week and his advice was to always win at home, and i think he was onto something. i can see why the pistons are such a good road team though.

    this wasn't as bad as a game last year when i felt like i should've gotten my money back, because it was still a close and exciting game near the end, but it still worries me (and that doesn't happen often). this team can be scary good when they want, but the question that's going to make or break them in the playoffs is, how good do they want to be?
  10. Nemo

    Nemo The Great Predictor Forum Donor

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    This team is not the Bad Boys. Those wre the Isiah and Laimbeer led teams with attitude. Our team today is a Joe Dumars led team which believes in a kinder and gentler NBA. Can't coach assertiveness. That's why we may struggle in the playoffs. We need the Zoo to be ready for playoff action. They need to be our x-factor off the bench. I certainly don't want another Billups off the bench. We're at 29-11. We need to finish with around 53 wins. That means going 24-18 the rest of the way. Play the rookies and take your lumps. Let's have 9 players in the rotation every night. Let them ALL average 20-32 minutes per game. We know how the starting five play. Let's see the others.
  11. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    Max was minus 22 i think in the first half.... that 2nd quarter was just brutal..... does any other team in the league play all 5 starters as long to start a game before starting to sub? If/When things then go bad with the bench your forced to overplay you starters when you do this wholesale sub pattern.... just a sad lose.
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Well, well, well, everyone, exept max, is blaming flip for this...As max said, rooks are not "magicians". Seems like this forum expected from bench a sort of explosion but instead of they see rookie mistakes and therefore try to blame flip for this. Let's see your argument: flip sr "is holding stuckey's hand", instead of letting Stuckey penetrate, he forces stuckey to follow "playbook" and that doesn't suit to stuckey.
    This explanation is extremly popular, but for me it represents narrow-mindness.

    Imo, stuckey's recent woes has nothing to with flip and his playbook. Stuckey's woes are his inabilities.

    Let take this "stuckey-always-penetrate" and see what happens:
    1. Okey at first sight S. syprized defence with penetration skills, but but defenders adjusted very easely. Why?
    2. Defenders saw that albeit S. is good penetrator, he is not threat behind 3 point arc, he can't shoot even closer to basket, he has no jumper.
    3. Billups is threat from everywhere and in addition, billups reads a game, "picks his spot".
    4. So, thats why S. is struggling: he has no playbook, i.e. he doesn't read a game, he doesn't adjust to defence, or doesn't force defence "to pick their poison" a la Billliups.
    5.Conseqently, only result to stuckey"always penetrate" will be turnovers, travelings and offensive fouls. And god thanks, that is what S. is trying to avoid, by learnig playbook, He is so one-dimensional that in order to be sucessful he has to be very smart. Even smarter than Billups.
  13. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    If you look at Sacs recent history, they lost Artest, Martin and Bibby for an extended time. With that, you see Salmons and Garcia taking an expanded role on the team. They get heavy minutes and greater responsibility. They both had to emerge during this time. Early on they got punked, were inconsistent but acclimated themselves to their new roles as key starters.
    In fantasy basketball they were dropped repeatedly before they 'broke out' so they didn't just explode onto the scene as some big secret weapon. But eventually, they did put up numbers and the team found moderate success even with their big three nursing injuries.

    So now you have a team that could hold its own against us but at this time, they are bringing three all star calibre players into the mix. Hello! of course our bench is going to look bad against Bibby and Artest.

    I'm not going to blame Flip for this loss. It would be interesting though, to experiment with lineups and chemistry. I believe we have talent...but a lot of it is still very young.
  14. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    It was flip's practices that has done him in. Flip has taken away the bench's passion which was defense. Affalo needs to play more because he does not have to score to be effective. Stuckey looks like a rookie, shame on the pistons for putting so much pressure on him; he needs to play loose and make his mistakes.
  15. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Sprocket Cap

    (Better late than never.)

    Fifteen of the prior twenty games against the Kings have gone against the Pistons. Wasting a superb game from Chauncey Billups last night at the Palace the Pistons are now five and sixteen against the Kings over the past several years. Billups’ 28 points (on 50% shooting), 8 rebounds, 10 assists, 2 steals, and no turnovers were nearly matched by Hamilton’s 24 on 67% shooting (but with five turnovers), and McDyess’ 14 on 54% shooting. Unfortunately the rest of the team shot 25% for the game, with Stuckey, Hayes, and Affalo failing to scratch in eleven attempts.

    The first quarter opened without much intensity from either team. The Pistons opened up a five point lead halfway through on the back of threes from Sheed, Rip, and Tay, serving to counter a hot start by Brad Miller who had nine of the Kings’ first twelve points on four for four shooting at the six minute mark. The Pistons pushed the lead to nine forcing a Sacramento timeout at the 2:58 mark. The timeout allowed Sacramento to bring in their “bench”, Bibby, Martin, and Artest, who injected a little energy into the game and closed the lead to six at 29-23 at the quarter break.

    The Sacramento bench starters continue their strong play in the second, taking the lead with a 15 – 4 run. The Pistons answer with a 7 – 0 run of their own, but the Sacramento lead settles in at eight points and remains there for the rest of the half. Shortly before the end of the quarter McDyess puts Artest on the floor with a crushing baseline screen that brings a cheer from the faithful, but by then the damage has been done. Despite a nice Wallace trap and steal, the Pistons turn the ball over and then have it stolen on the next possession to end the half down eight at 56 – 48.

    The third opens in the same lackadaisical mode as the first and the teams trade baskets through the first six minutes with the Pistons making up one point on the Kings. The second half of the third becomes Billups’ time with a number of nice drives to the hoop (three resulting in three point plays), a three, and some free throws (15 points in the quarter if I counted right). His single handed barrage pushes the Pistons over the top and the quarter ends with a one point Pistons lead at 77 – 76.

    The fourth opens with Artest back on the floor in a heap after a Prince foul on a dunk attempt. About that point a real ballgame breaks out on the Palace floor and both teams pick up the intensity. Sacramento employs a quicker line-up in the fourth with Artest playing power forward and gradually open up a six point lead on an Artest three and two missed free throws from McDyess at the three minute mark. Bad reach-in from behind fouls by Sheed and Dyess on consecutive possessions around the two minute mark keep the Kings in the game and up by three entering the final minute. A Maxiell turnover followed by a Sacramento offensive rebound and layup, and then misses by Hayes and Sheed make up the final margin and the Kings win 100 – 93.

    No production from the bench and a thoroughly lackluster game from Sheed and Prince doomed the Pistons. Sheed ended up one for six from three (two for six from inside the line), with many shots from three or four feet behind the line, including a couple of fall-aways. Tay started the game well, but got manhandled by Artest when they were matched up and more or less just went away. The Pistons outrebounded the Kings by five, had assists on 23 of 34 hoops, and only turned the ball over ten times, but 42% shooting (63% from the line with eleven misses - four each by McDyess and Maxiell) wasn’t enough to get it done.
  16. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    how many times have I posted this, nemo? u r so right...we are too good a team(?) to worry about HCA. We won the title with 54 wins in 04. This is our last stand (with Sheed on the team anyway).
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Pistons site will not load for some reason, and my computer crashed last night, so I only have footage up to the end of the 3rd Q.

    Thanks for all of the posts, I will go through them this afternoon. :)
  18. OLD SKOOL HQ

    OLD SKOOL HQ All-Star

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    And let's put this out for the LAST time to those who dont understand THE LEAGUE and the GAME WITHIN THE GAME.

    I really felt that Sacremento had talented players on the Floor last night. Look at the matchups:

    Artest > Prince...best three way player in NBA
    Miller > Sheed..olympian, team player
    Martin > Rip...youth and heart..a young Rip
    Moore > Dyess...energy and legs

    The difference ? Billups > Udrih and Bibby, BUT two heads are better than one. AND Sacro hasnt earned league wide respect. I dont know what it is with them, so It must be between the ears.

    As far as Flip goes: We dont care about wins and losses at this point...ITS HOW we win and lose. We cant wait until game 78 to start playing the bench more than 5 minutes a stretch(not a game- its when they are in the game that matter to me). We had it rolling and Flip just switched it off. There is NO team in the East that should beat us and only one MAN that can challenge us: LEBRON.

    SO lets get to preparing for the title, saunders!
  19. mikhail1973

    mikhail1973 All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion

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    :p_welldone::cheerlie-GOAL:
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    hey, with RonRon doing so well, do you think he's about to go KK--BBoomm !! ?

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