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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Isn't AA shooting a higher % than Herrmann from all regions of the court? I mean Herrmann's eFG is as bad as AI's and he's way more selective (he isn't depended on to take tough shots late in the clock). If Herrmann is not going to be at the PF position, then I don't see anything that he does better than Afflalo. Afflalo's defensive abilities make it a no-brainer for me.

    MC has coaching beer goggles on.


    I'm not advocating that a guy like Herrmann gets totally shut out of the lineup, but he really shouldn't be taking away minutes from an up and comer like Afflalo (our Kobe stopper).
  2. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    I think some of it has to do with impressions. AA doesn't look comfortable out at the three point line and doesn't seem to get any respect on his jumper. He is played more to drive then shoot.

    Herman is played more for the shot and not the drive. That pulls his defender out of the middle. He is streaky but is effective at spreading the floor on the offensive end.

    Don't get me wrong; I would much prefer to see AA in the line up instead and he did have a hot hand there for a while but it seemed to have gone cold and I think that is why MC made the switch.

    If we can get the rest of the squad working better together and still find minutes for AA to develop, I would love it. I just think that is too many variables for MC. :help2: I think this is also part of the reason AJ is out of the rotation.

    When MC has too many options he gets overwhelmed. I think he was feeling like he needed to use every option, every game instead of going with the options that best fit the gem we were in.

    When playing big centers, Kwame gets minutes; when playing undersized but bulky centers, give Max the minutes; when up against tall, lanky centers, AJ should get the bulk of the minutes. I am talking about majority of minutes here. I would still like to see all of these guys get minutes every couple of games and think if we did the above; they would all see minutes without long stretches of DNP-CD.

    I would like to see us use the talent on the bench to match up with our opponents more. The starters are going to do their thing but when we start using the bench; look at match ups and sub accordingly.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm the first one to critique MC, but his guys have to play better. Especially the guys off the bench. Max has got to fight for defensive rebounds, it is insane to have a PF play 15 minutes and go without a defensive board, and that is a normal thing for Max.

    All of these kids need to pick it up and bring more game. That's why I am fine playing Walt right now. He's really no worse or better than anyone else, but brings more of the intangibles we need.
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If the defense isn't respecting our 2nd best 3-point shooter, then GREAT! Bombs away.

    Sheed .362
    AA .354
    Rip .344

    He looks plenty confident to me. And if they do start respecting his outside shot, then he has way more driving and passing ability than Walt.
  5. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    its not always about the numbers though.... AA shoots wide open 3's because nobody is rushing to close out on him... where our do everything backup small forward seems to pull the defense out to him opening the middle for stuckey and others to drive to the hole.

    Saying that I'd rather see AA play too, but sometimes I think we asume we know more then the coaching staff does, and maybe just maybe they sometimes do know what there trying to do.

    And even if numbers say that Amir and Max are doing better defensively then others, there not getting the results the coaches are looking for.

    Like Roscoe said Max getting 1 or no def rebounds in 15 mins is just not getting it done. In a recent game, I remember the announcers saying max asked the coaches what he needed to do to get more mins and the answer was def rebounds....
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Like I said, if they are leaving him wide open, what could be better?

    Why do we need to spread the floor at all if they are giving up a high percentage shot without defending it?

    I'd run 50 straight plays for Afflalo until they guard it.
  7. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Cuz he ain't been hittin them. I think he has lost a little confidence and would prefer to drive the middle into the defense (ala AI) then miss a wide open shot.
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He hasn't been hitting them since he hasn't played.

    Since Jan, he's had 1 game with > 12 minutes and that was 16 min. He has a total of 21 minutes since Jan 11th.

    When he was in the rotation, he shot 15-35 from deep.

    Here is Herrmann's 3-point shooting in his last 20 appearances:
    0-1
    1-1
    1-2
    1-4
    0-1
    3-8
    0-0
    0-0
    0-1
    0-0
    0-0
    0-2
    0-2
    1-1
    0-2
    0-1
    0-0
    0-1
    0-2
    0-0

    7-29 (.241)

    That spreads the floor? 1 game in his last 20 with more than 1 make?

    That's crazy.
  9. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    well then you need to get ahold of the coaches playing us and tell them that, there the ones that guard him and leave aa open, and his percentage for wide open jumpers you said was 35 percent? i don't call that very good either and don't want him taking that shot.

    I think both stuckey and him know what there focus needs to be this summer, much like Rip a few years back decided to improve his outside shot thats what both this pups need to focus on this summer.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm just going to go on a friendly rant here...

    .355 from 3-point land = .533 from 2-point land. It's not a bad %... and of course, it is 2nd best on the team. If you don't want him taking that shot, then Sheed is your only other option since he's the only one with a better percentage at 36%. Rip is one of the best shooters in the game (and he spent all summer working on it once) and he even has a worse %.

    I just think this is a case where the fans allow the actions of the coaching staff to shape their perception. MC thinks Herrmann is a better 3-point shooter, therefore he is, nevermind that it is verifiably false. MC's list of mistakes so far is a half mile long, so add this one to the list.

    And even if Herrmann was a better 3-point shooter (which he's not), I still think Afflalo's defensive abilities would trump him. But in my book, AA is a SG and WH is a SF. This should not be an either/or situation.

    If you're going to play Herrmann off the bench, then go with AI, AA, WH, AJ, and KB/Jm. If you're not going to play Herrmann, then go with Bynum, AI, AA, AJ, KB/JM.

    And with Maxiell... no crap he's a bad defensive rebounder. He's only 6'5". What do they expect? Defensive rebounds are usually dominated by taller players while offensive rebounds are dominated by guys with quickness like Maxiell. With Max in the game our total rebounding is better than the other teams is. How much better do we need it for the coaches to be happy?

    I'm telling ya, MC can't see the forest through the trees. He's in over his head. This team would have more wins right now if MC's chair would have had a blank clipboard sitting in it. Regular season wins are not hard to come by for a team as talented as this. Playoff wins are hard to come by.
  11. round

    round All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion

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    I don't have the stats in front of me but the summer after Rip worked on the 3 ball he lead the league didn't he? well over 40 percent. If a player can't make 40 percent i really don't like the shot even with the EFG percent being over 50, long shots lead to long rebounds and alot of fast breaks the other way. thats a new one for you sir.... it seems that you get a lower percent of offensive rebounds on 3 point shots then 2 pointers... is that true or just me?

    Oh i by all means agree i'd rather see AA on the floor, just saying whether its warrented or not teams stick to hermann and leave AA open.
    So with Hermann on the floor there is more space for Stuckey and AI to penatrate to the hole and break down the defense.

    As for max, if he can't figure out how to get more def rebounds then his 1 a game.... he's just never going to be more then a part time bench player end of story.


    I'd be Running a 2nd team of AI AA hermann (he really does seem to play well with AI) Max and AJ to run havoc but i'm just a fan who doesn't know much. I have to agree with Currey on the bynam and AI backcourt just being to small there would be no defense played at all.

    I think for the most part we agree, I'm just looking at it maybe from a bit bigger picture and how other teams seem to adjust to us, just not looking at the raw data from the games.
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    It is simply not true that other teams leave Afflalo open more. What is the case, is that Herrmann is so slow, the other team easily catches up to him. (So someone not studying film would make the mistake of thinking that they are paying more attention to Herrmann.)
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    For quite a while now, if we get a win, Jason Maxiell is a big part of it.

    To not play Jason for lack of defensive rebounding is a travesty.

    How can you ignore all his offensive rebounds?

    How can you ignore all the defensive rotating he does?

    How can you ignore that he often is the perfect defender for the matchup at hand?

    How can you ignore that he leads fast breaks, and gets back very well on transition D?

    Jason Maxiell does not solely concentrate on rebounding on defense. He does a heck of a lot out there. You take the Cleveland game for instance earlier this season. Jason Maxiell's defense on pick and rolls won the game. It had Cleveland puzzled as to how to try to score.

    Not playing Maxiell, is like not playing Rodman at small forward just because he could not make the midrange jumper.

    Players can be winniers, and not fit the profile of the "perfect" player for a position.

    Jason Maxiell is a winner. He should play 20 minutes per game, every game.
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee, the Cleveland game was 3 1/2 months ago. Surely if he was as vital a cog as you say he would have another game in that time that rivaled this one?
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like it. The basic concept that seems to be logical is that you can put AI out there with guys who play defense, get offensive rebounds, and don't look to score. AI can function in a chaotic environment and these guys create pure chaos. That replay from the overhead cam of Amir and Maxiell keeping the ball alive on the offensive glass with 4 tips before Maxiell tried that insane dunk attempt is the perfect example.

    But Max and Amir better realize that they are going to get some really crazy passes from point blank range in the paint from AI. Gotta be ready for that and also be prepared to dunk back his misses as he takes defenders out of position.

    Well said. I would only see his lack of defensive rebounding as an isssue if 1) the team's defensive rebounding suffered with him in the game and 2) if it looked like he wasn't giving effort. We rebound fine with him in there, even on the defensive glass. So, he's helping somehow. And in many ways offensive rebounding is more important. The vast majority of defensive rebounds are uncontested or lightly contested. If Max doesn't get it, someone else on the team probably will. But on the offensive glass, either he gets it, or nobody does. And every one he gets effectively erases a missed shot for us.

    I like Max and Amir both for these same reasons. And my desire to see Amir in the starting lineup isn't really Amir based. My 2nd choice would be to see Maxiell in the starting lineup. I think at this stage, McDyess is better than both of them, but I think the team is better if we split up Sheed and Dyess and split up Max and Amir. I don't really care how it's done. Saving Dyess for the playoffs still seems smart to me though, so that is why I'd prefer Sheed to start. And between Amir and Max, I'd go with Max off the bench so that he's matched up against slightly shorter players. But these preferences are minor.

    Since it appears that this scenario will not play out now, my new hope is that AI + Max + Amir is going to be killer.

    And I'm also hesitant to see Bynum get burried again. He seems very comfortable on the floor. He is like a slightly smaller and quicker version of Stuckey. They both do the same things and similar range issues. Bynum is quicker while Stuck is stronger, but they use it to get the rim all the same. Hopefully Bynum/AI/AA/Max/Amir can work when we can get away with the size. AI/AA/Herrmann/Max/Amir when we need more beef.
  16. max

    max All-Star

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    I think Maxiel is the only reserve that can give us some reliable offense at those positions. Plus he is a good defender.

    Curry is getting close. Cut Herman and we will set until AI gets back. Nothing Herman can do that AA cannot. AA is even a better 3-pt shooter.
  17. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Afflalo cannot finger roll.
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That swooping finger roll last game by Herrmann could have been a classic. Tough to bank it with topspin though.
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Yea, that was a beauty. He started the move about 20 feet from the hoop.
  20. NYPistonFan729

    NYPistonFan729 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Hermann's hands are so big. The possibilities are endless.

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