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Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Lee356, Sep 10, 2005.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Microwave, I can't believe you would call one of my rotation posts a suggestion. Nowhere do I suggest anything, but rather just bring up a possibility. As I post one after another, anyone thinking of them as actual suggestions would get a headache.

    Now, here is another one.

    Start Billups, Tay, Maxiell, Ben, Sheed.

    2nd unit is Delfino, Rip, Amir Johnson, Dyess, Darko. Delfino plays point on offense, and Rip guards the point on defense.

    Why? You just upped the rebounding on the starting squad tremendously by replacing Rip with Maxiell. Maxiell can also, as a small forward, score like a fiend, making Rip unneeded. Only guards who can handle the ball, getting it to Maxiell, are needed here.

    Can Maxiell play small forward? Yep. Corliss could. Pretty darn well. And Corliss was not as fast, nor could jump as well, vs. Maxiell. Just like Corliss can dominate most small forwards, so can Acker. And Maxiell will cover power forwards and centers on switches better than Corliss could.

    Arroyo, Evans, Dale Davis, Acker, and Hunter would be the spare players on the bench. Of these, Arroyo and Evans would be the ones dressed most nights, and probably the two who make the playoff roster.

    Now, lets look at that 2nd unit again, Delfino, Rip, Amir Johnson, Dyess, Darko. You got a small forward there in Amir Johnson who will outrebound the center and power forward. Dyess will get his share of bounds. Darko will barely do acceptable in rebounding, yet he will be doing a ton of shot blocking. (At least at first. He has room to get better of course, and may rapidly with some serious playing time.) As will Amir Johnson soon as he gets comfortable out there.

    Worried about Amir Johnson not staying out there because of foul trouble? Why worry at all. Maxiell is young and can play more. Or Evans can get off the bench. Or Prince could play small forward with Arroyo coming into the backcourt. Foul trouble will mean nothing. Let the kid foul out every game, as long as he keeps getting those bounds while in and gaining NBA experience.
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I didn't. :confused: So you don't have to believe it! :P
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Quite correct, I addressed the wrong person

    I believe I was suppose to addressing Motown Pride on that one.
     
  4. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    J-Max: SF?

    Count me as a doubter. Corliss could play the position on offense, but not really on defense. I could actually see J-Max playing a bigger SF, like Artest, or a bruiser, like Nocioni (just to put them in their place), but not on a regular basis. He really is more of a natural 4.

    All this is academic now anyway-I doubt he sees much of the court this year outside of garbage time. My personal feeling is that if he and Darko develop well, they will become the first two bigs off the bench next year (after the Wallaces), and McDyess will be shipped elsewhere.

    Maxiell could probably contribute for a lot of teams this year-this one's just jam-packed at his position.
     
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ok, so now we know the roster

    For now, Hunter is not even walking well, so it will be a while before he plays in the rotation.

    That leaves the following 14 guys.

    CB, Arroyo, Acker

    Rip, Delfino

    Tay, Evans, Amir Johnson

    Ben, Dyess, Maxiell

    Sheed, Darko, Davis.

    This rotation has a ton of flexibility. Some of the obvious. Acker can play shooting guard with his 6-5 height and 7 foot wing span. Delfino can play small forward. Tay and Evans can play shooting guard. Amir Johnson can play power forward. Maxiell can play small forward. Ben and Dyess can play center. Sheed and Davis can play power forward.

    When Hunter comes back, he could be the third string point with Acker being the 3rd string shooting guard. This would give us a 2nd unit of Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, Dyess, Darko, and a third unit of Hunter, Acker, Amir Johnson, Maxiell, and Davis.

    How bad would our third string be? Hunter plays defense on the point guard. Acker acts as the point on offense. Davis, Johnson, and Maxiell can all rebound quite well. Maxiell would be the chief scoring threat.

    To start the season, most likely we will start with two units, the starters and then our 2nd unit.

    From there, who knows. I would guess that the first order of business would be to get Maxiell time as Flip can. Its a long season. Lots of back to backs (20 sets). Injuries might occur. Foul trouble. Yep, lots of reasons to let some guy from the 3rd unit get some time.

    But what I like in a coach is planning. Don't let fate in any way decide how you develop your young guys. Find ways to get them involved, and I do not mean garbage time.

    Part of this is to find favorable matchups for the rookies. For Maxiell, that might mean playing him at small forward against some of the slower small forwards of the league. For Acker, maybe a point guard that is not so good at going inside, but rather likes to shoot from outside. For Johnson, maybe a lesser offensive player. Let these guys show off what they have. For Acker, thats offense and defense too in many cases. For Maxiell, thats both offense and defense. For Amir Johnson, its rebounding, offense, and shot blocking.

    None of these rookies need to play a ton. Just so that they do play. Lets see how Flip does.
     
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Acker

    Lee,

    Acker is being used strictly at point this year. All of his reps in practice are at point. Perhaps in the future he'll play both 1 and 2, but not now.
     
  7. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed. We can afford to bring them along slow and steady. I can't think of a better team or a better position to learn on the job (maybe SA as well). Minimal immediate expecations and a great experience, especially for the Bigs, being able to study under guys like Ben, Sheed, Dice and Davis.
     
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Bill, his reps are at point because that is what they want to play him at. However, don't be surprised at all if he plays some shooting guard early with Arroyo. Afterall, he is a shooting guard naturally. A guy who can handle the point can pretty quickly learn the plays for the shooting guard. Its the point who must know exactly where his shooting guard is at all times, and know exactly where he is going and when exactly.

    We could see a unit of Arroyo, Acker, Delfino, Dyess, and Darko at times. This would be done by simply sitting Evans a bit to give us more ball handling in the lineup. Like I said, its about finding opportunities to play the rooks.

    Acker just may be able to guard a lot more shooting guards vs. points. So more ops to get playing time.
     
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Acker

    Barring injuries to Billups or Arroyo, I don't think we'll see Acker on the floor during meaningful minutes at all this year. In fact, he'll probably be in street clothes or in North Carolina for most of the season. I'm not saying that I don't like him. He's the 15th guy on the roster. That's all.
     
  10. Mad Hatter

    Mad Hatter First Round Draft Pick

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    Arroyo

    has earned my respect by mixing it up with Dirk. He looked like he was ready to go. Now that's what I'm talking about!:nod: As far as I'm concerned; Arroyo has become an authentic, bona-fide, take-no-prisioners, legitimate, true blue Piston! Looks like he might have found his shot too! Welcome aboard Arroyo!

    Now willya drive the lane through traffic and FINISH once in a while?:ohwell:
     
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    a rotation

    Starters play the first quarter, CB, Tay, Prince, Ben, Sheed. Our 2nd unit comes in to start the 2nd quarter, Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, Dyess, Darko. For the last 4 minutes of the 2nd quarter, we play 2 starters, 1 guy from the 2nd unit, and 2 guys not otherwise in the rotation.

    For instance, for that 4 minutes, we could see Arroyo, Tay, Maxiell, Sheed, Davis. The next night it could be Acker, Rip, Amir Johnson, Dyess, Sheed. The next, CB, Delfino, Maxiell, Ben, Darko.

    The starters play the 3rd quarter. To start the 4th, we play our 2nd unit, except we start off with one guy not normally in the rotation. For instance, Arroyo, Delfino, Amir Johnson, Dyess, Darko. The next night it could be Arroyo, Acker, Evans, Dyess, Darko. The next, Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, Dyess, Davis.

    Depending on how the subs are doing, the starters come back in anywhere from the 6 to the 4 minute mark. Of course, if its a blowout (in our favor of course), the starters could stay seated. In this case, the 3rd unit comes out. If Hunter is healthy, thats Hunter, Acker, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, and Dale Davis.

    Minutes given to Dale Davis are not development minutes, but they are minutes to keep him sharp for the playoffs. Rather than because he can help us win. Hey, Dale Davis is not in the same league as our regs up front. But he will play. As should our rookies, and even Hunter. Of course, thats another subject.

    With the playoffs only seeing a 12 man roster, its going to be a battle for a playoff spot. Lots of talent on this roster. Don't take anything for granted.
     
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A 12 man playoff roster

    I'd say its pretty certain our top ten guys at the moment will be on the playoff roster. After that, two of Hunter, Davis, Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell, and Alex Acker fill the last two spots.

    We have to have at least 5 bigs. We got Sheed, Ben, Dyess, and Darko for sure. So either Maxiell or Dale Davis makes the roster. I am going to guess Maxiell beats out Dale Davis here. But if its Davis, thats still a good solid rebounder.

    The last position will depend on what needs Flip finds he has during the season. If Evans turns out to be able to guard the same range of players Hunter can, then Hunter will not make the playoff roster.

    How about Acker? Well, as for playing any shooting guard, I think he will find the inn is full. Point guard. Arroyo and Billups look to have that locked up pretty good. How about as a defensive point guard? That depends on how well Arroyo does improving his defense this year. There could end up being a place for Acker as a taller guard able to smother a hot outside shooter.

    Last, you got Amir Johnson. An 18 year old just out of highschool. But he is 6-10, 220, and quick. Capable of playing small forward. Possibly a guy who could come in for Tay and we would lose nothing in quickness nor height at that position.

    I am going out on a limb here and guess that Maxiell and Johnson make the playoff roster. Davis, Hunter, and Acker will not sit.

    I am guessing we will find that Rip can guard taller point guards who get hot on shooting. And Tay besides.

    Now, we do play Miami several more times this season. If we find that Evans can't guard Wade, and that Hunter still can, and further that we don't seem to be able to beat Miami without using Hunter on Wade, then Hunter will make the roster instead of Amir Johnson. (Or it could be instead of Maxiell if Amir Johnson surprises us and shows he is ready to play a bit of power forward already this year.) But, I am guessing that Hunter won't be found needed for us to beat Miami, and so that is why I am guessing he will not be on the roster.
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I thought JMax was 6'5" do you consider him a big? BBen is only 6'7"-9" but that is as short as I will go. C/PF
     
  14. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Man do I like this thread concept... I haven't read a single thing in this thread and already feel enlightened :P
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ben is just one inch taller than Maxiell

    From what I have heard, Ben is 6-6 1/2 without shoes, compared to 6-5 1/2 for Maxiell without shoes. Ben is listed at 6-9. Maxiell at 6-7.


    So why would anyone refer to Ben as a center? Because he has a wingspan of 7-3. Normally, a person's wingspan matches their height. So Ben stands about 4 inches taller than the average guy when flat footed and reaching his hands up, as compared to the average guy with his height. So you can really think of him as 6-10 1/2 without shoes. Plus the fact Ben can jump real well with excellent timing makes him play even bigger.

    Maxiell, last I heard, has a wingspan of 7-4. Thats 5 extra inches for that standing reach compared to other guys his height. (7-4 is roughly 10 inches more than 6-5 1/2. Divide by 2.) So Maxiell is again, effectively 6-10 1/2 without shoes, when you add his height plus his extra reach due to his unusually long wingspan. And again, Maxiell can jump pretty darn well, and seems to have prettty good timing. And he weighs 260 poounds, about 20 more than Ben.

    Now, none of this is that "scientific." Part of guys wing span comes from his girth. But for sure, Maxiell has some pretty darn unusual length for his height. Yes, you can count him as a big man.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I believe that Maxiell will be a load on defense and offense for the legit Power Forwards in the league.

    Guys like K-Mart, Abdur-Rahim, Haslem, Chandler, Zach Randolph. I can see Maxiell battling well against these guys once he gets acclimated to NBA speed and develops a little pro-level finesse.

    The advantage Maxiell has over so many other Pistons is his relentless aggression. Aggressors always get the call. Look at how well Ben is playing early this season by being offensively aggressive...
     
  17. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    j-Max just needs to learn how to protect the ball, and he'll be a big force on offense. Many times I saw him take his guy to the hole against Toronto, but he kept getting stripped on the way up for the shot.
     
  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A rotation involving a trade

    We sign Ben to an extension, for purposes of trading him to Minny for KG. We throw in Hunter and Dale Davis. With the 125% rule, thats probably close enough. We could make the contract for Ben short term if they want to dump salary.

    Our rotation becomes CB, Rip, Tay, KG, Sheed. Bench is same, Arroyo, Delfino, Evans, Dyess, Darko. We still have Acker, Johnson, and Maxiell as young players to develop.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Merc... don't read this thread...don't do it man ... you're gonna regret it...
    Oh, what the hell... maybe just one little peak....
    Minny will trade KG for Ben & scrubs?... what was I thinking :loco:
     
  20. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Merc

    What do you mean scrubs? Lee threw Lindsey Hunter in with that package. You know how much it would hurt Lee to give up on his main man Lindsey?
     

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