Rotations, part... Joe D: Jennings isn't guaranteed a starter job

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by mikhail1973, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    28 points, 6 assists while playing 48 minutes. Playing through injury.

    7 turnovers while facing traps from one of the league's premier defenses.

    Simply not good enough.


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  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Perhaps you missed the part where Bynum was "not getting the team into plays." You can easily infer this by reading the box score.
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Heat were shooting over Bynum with ease as he's too short to offer any resistance.

    He should never play unless Mugsy Bouges returns or they allow children to start playing.


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  4. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    Gee, I'm pretty sure it would be possible to find children taller than Will Bynum's stated 5'11. He would be powerless to stop children from shooting over him. Clearly, despite his ability to score, distribute, and keep his thumbs safe from car doors, Will Bynum simply does not belong on an NBA roster.


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  5. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I've been trying to have some fun with Lee's Bynum-bashing posts, but the truth is, it's not that much fun for me to even pretend to bash on a guy who gives 100% every single time he sees the floor, never complains, and had great success despite the fact that he is "too short" "too old," and "too slow." I think the guy should be roll model for all the new young Pistons, and not some whipping boy for fans with an Agenda Against Winning.

    Luckily, it looks like Drummond really likes the guy, and since he appears to be the future and the face of the franchise, his endorsement of Bynum counts for much more than that of the casual internet fan.


    From here on out, I'm going to do my best to ignore this nonsense. The season starts in a few weeks, Charlie and Rodney's contracts are now officially expiring, the kids look excited to play, we have what looks to be a dominant front court, Chauncey's back, the Coach isn't Clueless (Please don't tell me Mo Cheeks doesn't know basketball) a kid named Pope, and the Italian Basketball Jesus. May the lord bless this team and this season. I'm on the bandwagon! Don't stop till we reach the playoffs!
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  6. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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  7. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    So I want to come up with a rotation that negates the lack of foot speed of Datome while playing him at shooting guard.

    First, our starters, by popular demand:

    Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond.

    Pope adds so much rebounding at the shooting guard position- and the rebounding otherwise is already excellent - that we really don't care how many shots Jennings jacks up. They are going to get rebounded by us and put back in if the miss. A lot. Indeed, with 4 good rebounders like that, we really don't want anyone shooting the ball but Jennings so that all 4 rebounders can get into position to go for the O board to some extent. Jenninigs just has to limit his 3 point attempts so they don't get too many long rebounds that trigger fast breaks.

    Back to Datome. Lets say he comes in with Tony Mitchell, as Pope and Monroe take a breather. Now, we go way slower at shooting guard on defense, but hopefully Datome is a good solid outside shooter to make up for some of that, while the front line of Mitchell, Smith, and Drummond should be airtight on defense around the rack. So Jennings is willy nilly going for steals, not really caring about his guy getting by him for the same reason we don't care about Datome losing his guy on a drive in. Refer back to that 3 person behemoth that someone needs to come up with a catchy name for. How about the Web. In honor of Spider Salley.

    Jennings, Smith, no problem with staying out there the extra minutes to make this work. But Drummond just might have to sit before too long. So this will be run some with Monroe in some instead of Drummond. Monroe knows he has to get lighter and quicker to play power forward now, maybe some of that means it could work with Mitchell, Smith, Monroe, ok.

    So say we make those first substitutions at 8 minutes into the 1st, and 3rd, quarters. For four minutes until the end of quarter, thats)

    Jennings, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Drummond.

    To start the 2nd and 4th quarters, we go with: (for 4 minutes)

    Jennings, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Monroe.

    Now Billups comes in for Jennings, Pope is back in. Billups plays out the last 8 minutes of the 2nd quarter as our point. Pope has had 8 minutes rest so he is good to go for the last 8 minutes of the 2nd. Monroe has only had 4 minutes rest, so Drummond replaces him for the last 4 minutes:

    Middle of 2nd quarter: (for 4 minutes)

    Billups, Pope, Datome, Mitchell, Drummond.

    Here, Pope plays small forward on defense, letting Datome continue to check a guard on the perimeter. Same story really, we still have 3 very agile defenders on our front line - just that we go smaller by replacing Smith with Pope.

    Last 4 minutes of 2nd quarter:

    Billups, Pope, Mitchell, Smith, Monroe.

    Here, Pope is playing the point guard on defense. We are really using his defensive versatility having him go from guarding the small forward, then the point guard. Billups is guarding the shooting guard, but even for that, he may prove too slow - but we have what should be a pretty solid front line in to make that not so much a problem.

    So lets review where we are for minutes at the half:

    Jennings 16, Billups 8, Pope 16, Datome 12, Smith 20, Mitchell 16, Monroe 16, Drummond 16

    There are just 3 substitution points to worry about. (not including start of 2nd quarter.) A total of 8 player substitutions in all including at the start of the 2nd quarter. Not too complicated.

    One drawback, Monroe and Drummond are only paired up the first 8 minutes. But we can play both Drummond and Monroe 4 extra minutes in the 2nd half, so should, in all, be able to come up with 20 minutes for the game where we have the two paired together. On the flip side, it does put Smith as the power forward (kind of), for 12 minutes.

    Ok, so the 2nd half comes along. We start the very same. Our first two subs, Datome and Mitchell, come in the same time. So the whole third quarter goes just like the first. And the first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter go the same too - almost.

    First 8 minutes of 3rd:

    Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond

    Last 4 minutes of 3rd:

    Jennings, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Drummond

    To start the 4th quarter:

    Jennings, Pope, Mitchell, Monroe, Drummond

    Middle 4 minutes of 4th quarter:

    Billups, Pope, Datome, Mitchell, Monroe.

    Last 4 minutes of game:

    Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond

    1st half minutes: Jennings 16, Billups 8, Pope 16, Datome 12, Smith 20, Mitchell 16, Monroe 16, Drummond 16

    2nd half minutes: Jennings 20, Billups 4, Pope 20, Datome 8, Smith 16, Mitchell 12, Monroe 20, Drummond 20

    Total minutes:==:Jennings 36, Billups 12, Pope 36, Datome 20, Smith 36, Mitchell 28, Monroe 36, Drummond 36
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Datome is pretty athletic. Some of his dunks in this video are crazy. A few nice blocked shots, too. The test for him will be keeping his guy in front of him in half-court sets.

  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Datome will be ok. Dude can obviously play this game.
  10. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Plus, we are paying him only $3.5 million over two years. Can't really lose.
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    He has come to save us.
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  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ok, Jennings is out for a while. Note, he will be evaluated in 3 weeks. He could be out longer. So here is a rotation we could use for now.

    Start Siva, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond.

    Advantages over Jennings starting - better defense. A true, died in the wool, pass first point guard.

    Now, for this to work well, you got to have Pope start knocking down his outside jumpers. Well, go look at that 5th summer league game where Pope hit plenty of outside shots and scored plenty. Might make a believer out of you, or at least instill some hope.

    On defense, the two of these guys working together might prove quite entertaining, and down right depressing to an opposing guard who knows that getting past these two only begins their suffering as they next face the Web. (Our front line.)

    And these guys can simply play 36 minutes together, for the most part anyways, leaving just 12 minutes for our 2nd unit to cover.

    My preference would be to get some new players on the roster though, rather than do either or the following:

    1) Break up our front line a lot so that Mitchell can relieve all three front court positions.

    2) Play slower players on defense on our 2nd unit, when we really need a defense first 2nd unit. And why you might ask. Hey, if they are only going to play 12 minutes a game, you might not be able to expect much in shooting rythm, or even offensive cohesiveness. But you can expect excellent defense even in short minutes if you play really good defensive players for those minutes.

    And so, who would I play on the 2nd unit who is on our roster? My preference would be Mitchell, and thats it.

    Again, I wouuld just as soon see Bynum, Billups, Datome, Singler, JJ, Stuckey, CV, and Harrellson all get traded, or simply let go, to get a more versatile group, defensively, for our 2nd unit.

    But hey, lets work with what we got, for now, and just try to keep our starters together for as long as possible.

    2nd unit:

    Billups, Datome, JJ, Mitchell, Harrellson.

    Yeah, porous perimeter defense, combined with a slow small forward and not so quick center. Only Mitchell would be there to provide any semblance of interior D. Don't like it.

    Instead, sacrifice the "tripling" of Smith, Monroe, and Drummond, and use Mitchell extensively, 36 minutes to be exact, to give each of Smith, Monroe, and Drummond 12 minutes of rest.

    Now, our 2nd unit would look like:

    Billups, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Drummond or

    Billups, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Monroe or

    Billups, Datome, Mitchell, Monroe, Drummond

    This I can live with. Porous perimeter defense from our guards, but with a solid front line - or the Web, to catch any flies that scoot on past them toward the bucket.
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  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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  14. max

    max All-Star

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    There is no way Billups is not going to start for the big homecoming. Besides he still has it, just cant play him a lot and he is the guy you want out there to start and end games. Pope will still get plenty of mins.
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lets assume everyone gets healthy. What might a 12 man game roster look like for a game midseason?

    Will Datome be on it? No data yet as he has missed the preseason. CV? Well, really, JJ absolutely can't play power forward in this league. So on the depth chart, we really don't have many bigs ahead of CV, even if he can't play any defense at all. Harrellson? Hard to believe we would not carry an emergency center on the 12 man roster for a game. Then you have JJ, who can play small forward ok, but could be squeezed out by Datome. Singler? In every game for us last year. But yet his most effective position, shooting guard, is overpopulated. Stuckey? Absolutely could get caught in a numbers game. So hey, here is my best guess:

    Sit Bynum, CV, and Singler.

    This gives you:

    Point: Jennings, Billups, Siva, Stuckey

    Shooting guard: Pope, Billups, Datome

    Small forward: Smith, JJ, Datome, Mitchell.

    Power forward: Monroe, Smith, Mitchell

    Center: Drummond, Monroe, Harrellson.

    Now, a lot of nights, Billups will not play. So Bynum plays those nights. Stuckey, JJ, and Datome could all sit some of the time, getting a bit of rotation time for Singler. But in all, I would like to at this point see the following as far as a rotation: (just with what I see so far, which for instance, lacks any sighting of Datome.)

    Start Jennings, Pope, Smith, Monroe, Drummond.

    2nd unit: Siva, Datome, JJ, Mitchell, (Drummond or Monroe playing center with the 2nd unit, and Smith taking JJ's spot a lot with the 2nd unit.)

    Some typical units we might see:

    Siva, Datome, Mitchell, Smith, Monroe

    Siva, Datome, JJ, Smith, Drummond

    Siva, Datome, Mitchell, Monroe, Drummond.

    Siva, Datome, JJ, Mitchell, Drummond

    But not Siva, Datome, JJ, Smith, Monroe. Basically, I want to see always 2 strong defensive bigs in. I don't count Monroe as one of those. I do count Smith, Mitchell, and Drummond as such. And of course, not JJ. So you can't see JJ and Monroe on the floor together.

    If foul trouble with our bigs, Harrellson can play a bit.

    PS, although the above does not mention Billups, of course, he will play. Some at each guard position. I am only leaving him out since I do not imagine we will count on him as an every day player. (Except in the playoffs. New story then.)
  16. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I think Billups is planning to play every game. He was just picking and choosing which preseason games to suit up for, partly to save the wear and tear, and partly to let the young guys get acclimated.
  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    The guys I definitely think should play are these guys.

    Drummond,
    Smith,
    Monroe,
    Jennings,
    Billups,
    Singler,
    Bynum,
    KCP

    I'd add Jerebko and Mitchell to the periphery of this group.
  18. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Agree.
    I hope to see Pizza win himself some minutes in practice and trash time.
    Sight unseen, I'm not ready to carve out 20 minutes a night for him quite yet like some others. If the dude can shoot like everyone says he can, the Pistons can use a guy like that.
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He never missed a shot in his Youtube video.
  20. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Gores should have his people ink a deal to have Pistons games broadcast on YouTube.
    I never see our guys miss shots when I check 'em out on YouTube.

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