Rotations - Part Deux

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mogilny, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I see what you're saying.
    I think he needs to watch VHS tapes of Scottie Pippen.

    ...or get traded to OKC so he can get a good look at Kevin Durant each night for inspiration.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's ALWAYS open due to his height. When he's shooting > 50%, that is a great quality. When he's shooting horribly, it's worse to be open... because you either shoot it and miss or you look like you're not confident by passing up open shots.

    He's most similar to Bargnani IMO.

    2011 version of Daye compared to career version of Bargnani (normalized per 36 min):

    AD: 13.4 pts, 6.8 rebs, 1.9 ast, 1.0 stl, 1.0 blck, .410 FG, .401 3P%, .518 TS%
    AB: 18.2 pts, 5.8 rebs, 1.5 ast, 0.5 stl, 1.1 blck, .440 FG, .365 3P%, .539 TS%

    Over the past 4 years, here is Bargnani's 3P%:
    .409
    .372
    .345
    .296

    Is he a .400 deep threat or a .296? It's obvious to me that he's not somebody that you want to leave open out there, despite his recent struggles.


    If we get 2010 or 2011 version of Daye back, we have a usable asset. If we get 2012 version back, we have a liability.


    To transform the body of a naturally skinny 6'11" kid, you're going to affect his touch. That's were my curiosity won't die. What if his shooting woes last year were the result of a downward spiral of workout related touch loss, followed by shortened playing time, followed by loss of confidence?

    The workout issues are behind him now (even if he's still at it, his body should have calibrated to it). So, now I want to see some playing time before making a final determination. The confidence issue is up to him to re-establish throughout the summer and at practice.


    Tay averages fewer rebounds, steals, and blocks per minute than Daye and all with a TS% of .470 last year. So, it's not like Jerebko and Daye are trying to unseat MJ.
  3. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Let's not forget that half way through last season the guy still had a negative PER. By season end he managed to return a lofty 7.1
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  4. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    This sounds like an adios appreciation thread for Daye..:yield: ....Anymore comments on who the second casualty should be?? Bynum, Villanueva or the FA's Flynn and Williams?
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    When Daye is not asked to shoot the ball even though his shot clearly is not there - something strange happens. We play winning basketball with him on the floor. You have two identical units, one with, and one without Daye - the one with Daye is the one that plays winning basketball - not the other. Why? That length of his on defense. Harp on his game all you want - but it remains a fact that the times coach pulled him out of the rotation, it was after the team did fine even though Daye himself did not make his shots. To me, coach is just blind not to see past the poor shooting. The shooting will come around - and the all around good defender will still be there. Again, guys like Williams are not the problem. Its the CV's and Bynum's that waste roster space. Players who can contribute, like Daye, should stick around. Along with Williams, and probably Flynn - though I have not paid any attention to him yet just going by what others are saying.
  6. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    If you go by the simple "eye test", Daye simply does not look like he belongs out on an NBA floor. He is a volume shooter that cannot make shots.
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He doesn't really shoot as often as you think. In 2010, he was 6th on the team in frequency. That dropped to 9th on the team in 2011 (ahead of only TMac, Big Ben, Maxiell, and Monroe). Last year he was in a virtual tie with Prince, Gordon, Bynum, Monroe, Stuckey, and Knight, each with about 13 FGA/36 (who were all a mile behind Villanueva's 18 attempts). When you consider that he was usually out there with Russell, Wilkens, Jerebko, and Macklin/Ben, it isn't surprising that he got off some attempts.

    Let's make him the next Jeremy Lin and THEN trade him.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    We should call it the Austin Daye Depreciation thread.
    alexa032 and LA Dre like this.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    He was 2 for 11 in 27 minutes on Friday. That was more than enough for me to see.
  10. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That's 1 attempt per 36 minutes more than his average. And his average is pretty average for the team.

    Misses are the problem here, not attempts.
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Daye must be the only rookie whose name gets mentioned when people are talking amnesty. His trade value nowadays is "cash considerations".

    I want him gone specifically because both Joe D and Frank seem to have this delusion that he's a PF.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'd rather Darren Daye comes out of retirement and joins the team. That guy had some heart.
  13. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    The Pistons do not actually play winning basketball with him on the floor. (Stats according to 82games.com)
    11/12: -11.3 +/- with him on the floor, -3.2 with him off it.
    10/11: -4.4 on, -3.1 off
    09/10: -5.9, -4.8

    Daye has length, but he is not quick and he has poor positioning. There are a few players that he matches up well against, and he will occasionally have good games, but that doesn't outweigh the games where he completely disappears and other teams are capable of taking advantage of the defensive mismatches that he presents. At best he is an outside shooter that has shown he is capable of hitting threes in the clutch. But he's still inconsistent and does NOT offer anything defensively.
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    They don't play winning basketball with anyone on the floor except for Macklin.

    They play least poorly by far with Stuckey and most poorly without Stuckey (2012's MVP). You just need a certain number of collisions out there and when he's on the bench, you don't get them.

    Daye was in fact the worse on/off +/- player per minute on the roster... but still.

    He's the Valverde to my Leyland. If I had a trapper keeper, it would have his sticker on it.
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  15. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Tayshaun Prince comes to mind as a guy that Daye matches up against pretty well.
    I'd like to see those guys playing against each other this season when the Clippers play the Jazz.
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  16. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Or when the D-Fenders play the Mad Ants.
  17. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I'm actually optimistic about Daye this season. I feel like he'll turn the corner and be able to score on Boobie Gibson.
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  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    There you have it. The on/off +/- player per minute is definitely the most important stat for evaluation.
  19. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    If daye used his natural gifts, he could be a full Thabo Sefolosha kind of defensive specialist.

    Which would be incredible. I'm imagining in my head Dwayne Wade yelping at the refs while Daye wraps him up in his spaghetti arms of interfering. Hilarious.

    Then back it reality, Daye gets another kicked ball violation dribbling off his foot.
  20. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    I don't see how there's room for an unproductive Daye on this roster; I don't see a role he can play that someone else can't do (and more effectively). He's either too slow (at the 2/3) or too weak (at the 4) and is a net negative, especially on defense. In terms of him being a shooter (omitting the fact that Daye's shot is in 2012 regular season form i.e, way off atm), Ken, Khris and even Kyle look like they are all able to fill that role - not to mention JJ who is a 3/stretch 4. And the Pistons do not play winning basketball with him on the floor - unless you mean playing with the goal of winning the number 1 overall pick, that is.

    Extrapolating from tonight's game, it looks like the rotation for now is this:
    PG - Brandon/Bynum/Flynn or Williams
    SG - Rodney/Maggette/Ken/Williams
    SF - Tayshaun/Maggette/Khris
    PF - Max/JJ/BoT/Daye
    C - Greg/Andre/Krav

    Seems Daye and BoT are destined for another season collecting splinters on the bench. Garbage time lineup included Ken, Kim, Krav, BoT and Flynn. Williams and Daye were DNP-CD.

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