Rotations - Part Deux

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by Mogilny, Oct 14, 2012.

  1. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    With Lee only a flu recovery away from returning and the season opener closing in quickly I think it's time for a new Rotations thread.

    I think the depth chart right now looks like this judging from the preaseason games:

    BK - (Stuckey) - Bynum
    Stuckey - (Maggette) - Ken
    Tay - Maggette - Singler - Khloe - (Daye)
    Max - JJ - Chaz - Daye
    Monroe - Drummond - Slava

    Cut: T-Will - Flynn

    This is how I'd prefer it to look to start the season (the realistic version where Tay starts):

    BK - (Stuckey) - T-Will - Bynum
    Stuckey - Ken - (T-Will) - (Maggette)
    Tay - (JJ) - Singler - Khloe - Maggette
    JJ - (Monroe) - Max
    Monroe - Drummond - Slava

    In the sauna: Chaz
    Cut: Daye - Flynn

    This is how I'd prefer it to look to midway into the season (the unrealistic version where Tay is gone):

    BK - (Stuckey) - T-Will
    Stuckey - Ken - (T-Will)
    JJ - Singler - Khloe
    Monroe - (JJ) - Max
    Drummond - (Monroe) - Slava

    In the ring: Chaz
    Traded: Tay - Maggette - Bynum

    Not sure what the vet wings will be traded for but as long as they are gone I'm aboard. The team needs a starting caliber SF but that's hard to get by trading two old non starting caliber SF:s. I'd go for the JJ at 3 experiment for the rest of the season and if it doesn't work out I'm drafting or signing a free agency SF. Bynums expiring is traded for a 2nd rounder or whatever he can bring back.
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Mogilny, pretty good at the end, but I'd never put JJ listed anywhere ever noway never as a power forward. And although Tay has his drawbacks, a wise coach who kept him fresh by cutting his minutes drastically would find great value in Tay yet. I won't give up on Daye. I'd play him big minutes knowing that shooting slump will go away soon enough. Between Daye and JJ getting small forward minutes, Tay should be able to get plent of rest, which he absolutely thrives on if any coach of his would ever notice.
  3. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    I like your thinking, and I'm coming around on the idea of Drummond starting. The problem with your midseason team is that you're dealing with Knight and JJ being the only guys on the that unit that can hit a jumper, which means you're relying on preset plays run by Knight (a second year player) or Stuckey crashing to the rim and Monroe/Drummond/Jerebko picking up the chaff. Unfortunately, if those three guys crash, then you only have Knight anywhere behind the free throw lane and the Pistons are going to get run out of the gym by better teams.

    The team's rotations need to have balance. Monroe and Knight obviously start. I'd position Monroe at the high post and running the offense through those two. Keep Stuckey in the rotation, but you need players that can spread the floor. That means Tayshaun (barring a trade) and probably (ugh) Maxiell, who has a decent mid-range jumper. JJ is an option against teams that lack a true 4, but he's overmatched at the PF position.

    After that, you bring in guys based on matchups and how players are playing. You're going to want to lean on Drummond heavily against down-low bigs like Howard, but he's not as effective if he has to step out and guard a jump-shooter like Garnett. If the team isn't shooting well, you probably want to go with more of a throw-it-up-and-pray type of squad like Knight/Maggette/Jerebko/Monroe/Drummond (you still have the defensive liability here, but if your team isn't hitting, you gotta put in points somehow).

    I'm interested in seeing how the team plays this year, and how Frank sorts out the rotations. There are a lot of pieces here to figure out, and there's actually a decent amount of team balance to work with. I see this as more of an experimental, developmental year, and I expect that the team will struggle early but play .500+ ball the second-half of the season. Should be exciting to watch.
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I'd be impressed if Frank makes any attempt to sort out the rotation. So far what I see stinks of agendas coming from Dumars or Frank - who knows, rather than any interest in building a decent team. Just my opinion. Oh, and I haven't even started paying attention yet. Time for another nap.
  5. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    The better strategy is 1. get the talent on the floor 2. if there is a race for a spot, select the player that balances the team better.

    I don't see this team making the PO no matter how it is balanced (unless Drummond goes wild) and Maxiells bad jumper is not more balancing than Drummonds horrible since neither of them will space the floor. The lack of shooters is a problem but unless someone like Ken or Khris start over Stuckey which won't happen then any lineup will have this problem.
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    A rotation:

    Knight, English, Tay, Monroe, Drummond. These starters have 3 decent outside shooters, especially if you keep Tay's minutes down. No slouches on defense. Plenty of rebounding.

    2nd unit

    Stuckey, Daye, JJ, JMAX,( the Ukranian, with lots of Monroe and Drummond with the 2nd unit.)

    Williams as a defensive specialist. Singler where and when he can guard his opposing small forward. (or play shooting guard where he can generate more offense against a smaller guard vs. what he gives up not being able to chase the quicker guy.)
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  7. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Is the agenda thing this pre-season only or did you feel that way last year also? I thought he was pretty consistent last year on what got guys PT. I think Frank just has a F'd up plan this year.
  8. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Terrance Williams is light years ahead of Daye as a player. I would like to see the Pistons keep some maniacs/athletes over the set shooters for once.

    If the team is going to struggle to shoot running Drummond to the rim is the way to go. It is going to be hard for anyone to keep him from establishing position close to the hoop. Hopefully the guards/wings can throw accurate lobs. Passing hasn't been one of their strengths recently, nor has deferring to front court players.
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  9. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Michelle Williams is light years ahead of Daye as a player. And he's getting worse by the day.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ernie, being sick as a dog, I have paid virtually no attention to this preseason. As for last season, the early part was just one big huge joke as far as trying to find winning combinations. To put it mildly, for instance, the idea that JJ is a starting power forward in the NBA is laughable beyond belief.
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Lee always believes there is some (not success related) agenda behind the team not playing everyone at least 15 minutes a game.

    I'm not saying he is right or wrong, but if you looked at his posts from the last 9 years, you'd see basically the same theme. Coach/Dumars has an agenda that means rotations are skewed towards a shorter bench and playing guys too much.
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Ernie, I like what little I have seen from Williams (which is like maybe 15 minutes total listening to the game on the radio with Williams playing most of that.) He seems to be a knock-a-way machine. But nothing in his career suggests he can shoot the ball. On the other hand, we have all seen how effective Daye can be shooting the ball. Who knows, without that strike shortened season last year, Daye could be a major star on the team right now. Lets not throw that away too lightly. Hopefully, Daye can get that shot back to go with his miles and miles of length he has for defense and rebounding. They say you can't teach height. You can't teach that kind of length either. I believe if you got rid of the players who obviously will never make us a decent team, like Gordon (gone finally, CG, and Bynum, there is plenty of room to let both Daye and Williams get every chance to shine.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I feel like Daye will never be aggressive enough to make anything of his shooting. He's like an unloaded gun.
  14. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    No doubt. Just because starting Jerebko at PF was a losing proposition doesn't mean it wasn't your best option at the time.
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I think Lee has a good point in some cases, but in others, it assumes the players are interchangeable, and team performance is more heavily skewed to rotation than to talent/endurance.

    Again, not passing a value judgment, just looking at the analytical process.
  16. The Panda

    The Panda All-Star Forum Donor

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    Over at the Pistons head office, they need to have a bit of a paradigm shift.

    Stuckey is not a 'combo guard'. He is a non passing guard. There is not combination of skills here, just him in a demolition derby in the key.

    JJ is not a combo forward (3/stretch 4). At best he is bigger than average 3, at worst, a completely unintimidating scoring option on the weakside post. Nobody sees him posting up Kevin Love, and goes "Gee, JJ could get a triple double over this chump". They think "KLove is pushing that little dude round like a potato."

    BoT is not a basketball player. He is a morale destroyer. A whirlwind juggernaut of bad shooting and terrifyingly bad defense. I honestly believe that I would be more effective defending the people he plays. And I am 6"1 at a stretch and maybe 200 pounds. (85kgs).
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  17. coynejeremy

    coynejeremy All-Star Administrator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Inspired by Panda, I hereby dub a poor game from one of our players a "potato". Any early predictions on number of potatoes this year from our crew?
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I have faith in Frank to not play guys like CCG or Daye if they're not with the program defensively. He was consistent with that last year.

    I still can't believe they wasted a chance to play Monroe and Drummond together so they could get a good look at 4th(?) year Pistons Austin Daye. #beimpactful
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Perhaps they feel they can look at Monroe and Drummond for years to come, but only have another week to look at Daye.
  20. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Perhaps. I wonder what he looks like in practice, is he any more confident against his own team? They've had these guys for a while, they're not changing. Churn the team.

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