Rip doesn't want to go to the bench

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by alexa032, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I like lpgrl. I truly do. HOWEVER,

    I'm squarely in the Cannuckian's corner on this one. I believe his arguments are the more sound and based on facts and objectivity. IMO lpgrl loses her objectivity when it comes to Iverson.

    Once again. we see things quite differently Lee. I hope that continues. That is all I will say. Have a nice evening.
  2. professor

    professor Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    That is all I will say. Have a nice evening.

    oh wait a tick
  3. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    I support neither of lpgirl or roscoe. I think they are both whiny little %%%%%es who's lack of behaviour is showing :MusicBigGrin::MusicBigGrin:
  4. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Utah would never bite on that.
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Excellent post. I fully understand what you are saying. And yet, there is a bright side as far as our defense. Curry is playing Amir and Afflalo more. Now, those two playing certainly helps our overall defense, yet we still do not always play good team D. And if these two are not in the game, it looks pretty ugly at times. Definitely a mixed bag.

    Two other factors also might make one wonder about our D. Dyess is back. Never a good defender to begin with in general situations, now he is playing with several injuries. And Stuckey has a bad back. His overall mobility, which includes his D, is suffering.

    You look at our past ten games, and a lot of that was without Dyess playing while Maxiell played more. Of course the defense got better for Dyess playing less, and Maxiell playing more. This can be easily negated by Curry choosing to limit Maxiell's playing time as soon as Sheed and Dyess get healthy.

    And Afflalo? Will he still get the solid minutes when Rip returns.

    And Amir. Despite winning 8 of 10, people want to jump all over the guy after a loss to Utah, a team that has beaten us, what, 9 of 10 now. Sorry everybody, that was not Amir's fault. We lost the game late 3rd quarter and early 4th while Amir was not in the game.

    And Kwame, another possible victim in the minutes war of Dyess and Sheed returning.

    A lot of what made us such a good defensive team this past ten games or so can disapear real fast, by a series of coaching decisions. For sure, we are way too much in a state of flux to even imagine that this good D will continue. Curry has to make it a priority, and continue playing the players who can play the D. We simply do not know if he will, or not.

    Oh, and I got to add this. Curry reverted to small ball early in the 4th quarter of the Utah game. A disaster. A winnable game became unwinnable in about 2 minutes flat, mostly because we went small. Our middle was left unprotected and Utah went to a layup drill. So, again, since we never know when Curry will revert to the whole non-sense of small ball, we never know from one moment to the next if any defense at all will be played.
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    What you're accusing me of is the exact same thing that you and others have done on numerous occasions. When we were going through the "adjustment" period with AI, the goal posts weren't just moving, they were swimming. No one could put a number of games on when we would "adjust". And the worse it got, the number of games needed to "adjust" just kept expanding. Give it 15 games. Give it till all star break. Give it till the PO's then you'll see his true value.

    My opinion is the team is not playing well. My reasoning is that there hasn't been a consistent type of play exhibited for a long enough time to prove that this type of play has become their identity. And my "sample size" is watching our play over the season You're asking me for a specific # of games when this will be known. Did you know the exact moment the Pistons became a championship team ? or the exact moment that you realized this team established an identity ?

    You're contending that because you believe they're playing well and their win/loss record has been better they must be playing well.

    My response to Ernie's post was not in reference to AI or Rip. He asked if i saw any improvement in the team's level of play. And i was specifically talking about defense/team identity. You're nitpicking trying to find something that wasn't there. If you believe my opinion isn't valid, you are more than entitled to ignore it.
  7. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    These are my 2 big worries about Rip coming back. It's more than likely AA gets lost in the shuffle trying to accomodate Rip/AI's minutes. Or small ball gets used alot more and Amir gets slowly phased out. Both of the guard's minutes can be reduced, but with one of them already having to come off the bench, who knows how much Curry will push after that. However, AA could play more SF behind Tay. If we're committed to staying big and keeping AA/Rip on the floor together as little as possible i'm not sure how that works in terms of their MPG.

    Both of those things will make us sufficiently worse defensively.
  8. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    WE have been winning with Rip out but what if we experiment with AI off the bench and see if we can rack up more wins with a greater point margin? We have been squeaking out wins with our current configuration. While watching the games and thinking of this discussion I was thinking forward.

    During those games when we went through our difficulties scoring; not once did I say to myself "wish we could bring in Rip to breakdown the defense and get us a score or get a teammate a bucket to get us out of this lull". Bringing him in and slowing the game down when we are already having a problem scoring (which we will eventually) just doesn't seem like the right move.

    IMO, working the ball inside out with Sheed and Tay to start the game and Rip coming off his screens seems the better way to start and when we hit those lulls; bring in AI and let him do his thing by getting us a bucket, getting to the line or setting up a teammate for a score.

    Just my opinion. :stirthepot:
  9. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Joe Dumars tried to do that, he wanted Carmelo Anthony, but Denver wouldn't budge.

    So, he saw he could have major cap space for 09 and '10 so decided to play ball and trade for AI.
  10. Delfino Delivers

    Delfino Delivers Bench Warmer

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    Would have been in a better mood if he had his banana treated. :D
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree that I think they get more out of their bigs with AI playing than TGRH. It was when Sheed went out that the point margins became slimmer. You can go a game or 2, but after a bit it becomes obvious that, Dyess aside, the rest of the bigs can't score.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Amir picks up 2 fouls 2 minutes into each half would that not impact the rest of the teams' aggressiveness vis a vis the penalty?

    If Amir picks up 2 fouls 2 minutes into each half and 2 of the other bigs are already hurt does that not facilitate the need to go small at some point?

    How much PT or "experience" does Amir need to learn how to close out on a jump shooter without fouling them?
  13. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    lpgrl26, I'm guessing you forgot that when you lose in the ECF 3 times in a row, you lose you're "sacred cow" status.

    Everyone was in play, and honestly, I think Joe Dumars traded the wrong guard.

    :toilet:
  14. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    To add to this point. I'm borrowing these stats from DBB b/c i'm too lazy to actually look for them on my own, but Stuck/Rip did start together post CB/pre AI.

    Detroit vs. Charlotte - Box Score - November 03, 2008 - ESPN

    Detroit vs. Toronto - Box Score - November 05, 2008 - ESPN

    Those are a limited view of their stats starting together. Not enough to really draw the conclusion that they are better together, but definately shows it's worth a try.

    Both of those wins were by comfortable margins and the defensive quarters sans the 29 pt one were all good, and in terms of O we hit 30 twice, and this is without the possible production AI would bring off the bench and before Stuckey became Stuckey of last year.

    I don't see what being a "sacred cow" has to do with who would be better in the SL but ok. The way Rip has handled this is immature, expected that he would feel this way about coming off the bench, but immature nonetheless. In that respect AI has done the right thing by keeping his mouth shut and not giving the papers anything to quote (whether that's b/c he hasn't said anything or they have chosen not to report it, i don't know). Regardless, he's being smart and letting this play out. Rip on the other hand has always been emotional and i never expected him to be able to keep his mouth shut.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Rip does shoot at a higher %.

    He doesn't bail us out late on the clock like AI sometimes does, but maybe we don't need to get bailed out as often with him running all over the place and getting open shots?

    From the silly stats, Rip seems to be holding his man to lower production, which might mean his defense has been stronger.


    And if you're worried about AI not being able to play the point off the bench, what about Rip? He can't even do it in a pinch.
  16. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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  17. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    WOW lp!
    Do you honestly think ANY of the hack reporters that cover this team would sit on a story like that?

    WHY do you feel that they would simply "choose not to report it"?

    If/when AI comes out and says somethng like: "Bench... Bench? ...We talkin 'bout BENCH? ...I'm a hall of fame basketball player. I go out there and put it all on the floor every night. ...And we talkin' 'bout bench?"

    - You betcha that beat guys, columnists, talk-radio guys, commentators, bloggers and obituary writers are going to be ALL-OVER that story.

    I'm not taking sides here (you/roscoe) and quite frankly I don't care WHICH one of our all-star shooting guards comes off of the bench. One of 'em HAS to though - for the good of the team!

    MC needs to step up and make a decision when the time comes (soon). If he wants to switch up who starts based on match-ups, I'm down with that. But something HAS to be done to avoid small-ball. We can't win with Tay as a PF.

    As far as Rip's "It ain't gonna happen" quote, I'm VERY disappointed!
    If BubbaChuck says something similar, I'll be disappointed with him too!
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Get ready for more small ball. Not in the first 7 minutes of the game of course, but for the majority of Q's 2-4.
  19. Latinoking90

    Latinoking90 Bench Warmer

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    Or just rest Tay more. Play more Max, Amir and AA.
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I guess we may as well just have Curry speak on this matter.

    So, in summary.
    • Curry likes that they have fighting spirit and want to start.
    • He's willing to tell them how it's gonna be.
    • He expects them to comply with it.
    • He realizes small ball is not the best path because it hurts our defense.
    Let's sit back and see how well he pulls this off. His thought process seems to be pretty clear.

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