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[Poll] Is Maxiell taking McDyess' job?

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Dec 17, 2006.

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Can JMax take McDyess' minutes?

Poll closed Dec 22, 2006.
  1. Yes

    63.9%
  2. Not yet

    13.9%
  3. No

    11.1%
  4. Undecided

    11.1%
  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Given the way McDyess and Maxiell have played recently, do you think Jason is muscling Antonio out of the lineup?
     
  2. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I didn't see Max play tonight, but based on the way Dice has performed in the last 30 or so games, I would say someone needs to put the muscle on him. 6th man is up for grabs, may the best player win.
     
  3. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lets open this up a bit. Why pick on Dyess? Look a little closer. In this set of back to backs just concluded, its Dyess who got more minutes vs. Mohammed. Its Mohammed in danger of losing his minutes. Its Mohammed who has been steadily losing his minutes of late. Dyess continues to play the usual 20 minute average. Dyess played 27 last night, so he was due an off night. Those knees of his will only give us so much so fast. Dyess has given us a whole lot of fine games in the past. Mohammed has yet to give us one. Should Maxiell start is the question I would say yes to.
     
  4. Terry T

    Terry T First Round Draft Pick

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    I would rate the bigs;
    1. Rasheed
    2. Dale Davis
    3. Maxiell
    4. McDyess
    5. Nazr
    with Nazr being the odd man out. Either way Maxiell should definitely be part of the regular rotation from now on. The way he plays you can't keep him on the bench.
    If he keeps improving I can see him starting in the not too distant future. Rasheed may have to move over to center. Or, we have had some success with a 6'7" center in the past.
    I openly admit to an anti-Nazr bias, how can you play center and not box out?
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    lee, I agree about McDyess in the past, but he is not getting younger and is probably playing out his last decent contract.

    Maxiell on the other hand does not seem to pick up the touch fouls McDyess does, and plays at the rim, drawing fouls, something this team sorely needs.

    I see your point on Nazr, but even Nazr has been outplaying McDyess of late. Let's face it, Antonio's bread and butter move is a fading jumpshot, 10~14 feet from the basket. When he's on, he's efficient. When he is off, he's a liability like the last two nights.

    I threw out the idea in chat that maybe Davis should be starting alongside Sheed (like in Portland) and Nazr and Maxiell coming off the bench together. What do you think of that idea?
     
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's funny, the biggest coaching gripe on Max is that he doesn't do "it" night in and night out, I think that has more to do with experience or the lack thereof. But NONE of our bigs do "it" night in night out, for various reasons:
    1) Sheed, is the epitome of an inconsistent under achiever with an amazing array of skills and talent.
    2)Nazr, Nazr is what Nazr is, a guy that can get you 10&7 in limited mins in a best case scenario.
    3)Dyess, a clear case of diminishing returns as a player whose had bad knees and starts getting older, or based on his performance, has gotten old.
    4)Max, sometimes his efforts just don't materialize, as he plays more and gets accustomed to the league the consistency will be there.

    I feel good about our frontline, Joe's insistence on depth is really going to pay off, between the four of them 2 should find their groove on a given night.
     
  7. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    I do wish Dale Davis would start as well as Jmax, while Rasheed is out. Starting is not McDyess' forte.
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You forgot Dale! :)

    But you're right. As long as we get 2 or 3 out of 5 rolling, that's a formidable front court. Now we have to break off Tay's cement shoes...
     
  9. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Starting Dale Davis, or JMAX, either would work. Its more important to get Mohammed out of the rotation vs. which player starts between Davis and JMAX. And its more important we start seeing Amir play, something Dumars has hinted at.
     
  10. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    While we are still early in the season, Joe should be demanding that Brahma be at least splitting more minutes with Dice. Looking the last two games and the boxscore of both, JMax clearly outplayed Dice. Even Dales' numbers looked better than Dice. Starting JMAX should be considered if SHeed misses the next game.

    The good thing is that with Sheed out we have seen Davis and JMax showing Flip that we do have some depth in the front court, and both of these two are not afraid to battle in the paint evidenced by the 5 blocks the two of them had last night and the 25 rebounds they grabbed tonight. (only wish our two starting forwards would play more in the post)

    Even when Sheed comes back, his minutes should be limited so that JMax continues to get his on the job training in real game situations Looks like Dice is averaging 21 mins a game and Sheed about 33. I say when Sheed returns, drop his minutes to 27-30, Dice's to 15 and give the leftover minutes to JMax in every game. That way we got fresher legs come postseason tme than we had the last two years.
     
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Lee, are you familiar with the "hiding Amir" theory we toss around here? It basically goes that Amir is an amazing talent (see 18 points in 18 minutes game last season) but Joe doesn't want to show him off too much because a bidding war could hurt our ability to add free agents next summer should any of Murray/Dice/Dupree leave and Davis retires.

    I'm not saying that is the best way to handle AJ, but if Joe wants him here long term and still keep the team competitive, some sacrifices have to be made or we could end up in another Mehmet Okur scenario.
     
  12. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    That thing about JMAX not giving consistent effort was pure BS from Flip Saunders. One more excuse. A very flimsy excuse indeed for not having gotten JMAX into the rotation previously. The last game before JMAX was pulled from the rotation was the Houston game, remember? JMAX kicked it into high gear in that one, and we won the game after JMAX helped get us back into the game at the end of the 2nd quarter. Thats when the Flipster announced JMAX was out of the rotation. (He also announced Delfino was out, but that was proven untrue.)

    Now its time to campaign for Amir to play. I wonder how much Joe has to threaten Flip before he relents on this one.
     
  13. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Look at the box score for Nazr, he's just as productive in 15 mins as Dyess has been the last 2 years in 20+ mins. There are 2 things wrong with Nazr
    1-He starts, not his fault though.
    2- He makes too much money for what he does, again not his fault.

    If Nazr was a bench player who we were looking at to play 15 mpg to keep our bigs fresh and he only made $3.5 mill (instead of our entire 2006 mle) we'd be ecstatic about the guy. Change what you expect outta of Nazr i.e. Ben's replacement and you might be little excited about what he brings.
     
  14. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Hoops there it is!
    At what point do you hold the regulars accountable for inconsistency?... how bout right now?
    We have to be sensitive to trade scenario's... what we see on the surface does not = what we will see after the Feb deadline... there's still some showcasing involved.... and we should not count out McDyess's ability to contribute in big games (the regular season is not the end all).

    Dice vs Mohamed?... ok... but do we seriously think of Dice as replacing a center (or Sheed as a regular physical force at the 5)?
    Nazr is playing a limited role lately... a little less than you would hope for at MLE $'s.... it's not the starters position that counts but who's getting the minutes.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is precisely what should happen. Naz would be one of the best backup centers in the league instead of a below average starter. Dale Davis is a former all-star who seems to be as hungry as any player on the team. And as we have discussed, our big 4 are used to playing with a C who does the dirty work and doesn't demand the ball on offense.

    Under this scenario, we would get off to faster starts and also add some offense to our bench unit.
     
  16. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Good and relevant discussion. We have sorely lacked energy on the front line. Sheed has been a one man defensive show. If Maxiel continues this type of play, he brings the youth and quickness we need.

    Dice is better against the good teams where his fall-away jumper (as Micro noted), his best weapon, can get us key points. He is not great defensively--at least not consistently and cannot fill the void left by Ben. Dice also cannot play around the hoop offensively.

    Davis has brought a toughness that we have missed without Ben. Can he do it consistently? I hope so. He is 37.

    I was not for Nazi's signing as I posted here and elsewhere last summer. But he is needed. When we play a team like Miami, we need his fouls for Shaq. As far as minutes, Maxiel takes some from both Dice and Nazi who have both shown limitations.

    The exciting thing is if Maxiel continues to play well. It gives us dimensions we haven't had and may overcome the loss of Ben by compensating in other areas. He and Davis changed the complexion of the game. It is that one-two knockout punch Larry always wanted, that is, to bring in players who can change the pace of the game.
     
  17. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Everyone should be held accountable for inconsistency all the time, but realistically our backup pg,sg,&sf are not good enough to hold anybody accountable. A player we could really use right now is Quentin Richardson, a legit sg/sf that could push are starting wing players for mins.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm surprised to see Flip trim back Tay's minutes given his comments that it's ok for a young fella to play 40+ during last season. Mind you, Tay has not played well of late, but you hope that Delfino can seize the opportunity because Tay is Joe's first successful pick and all GMs fall in love with guys like that.
     
  19. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    Alright, he's earned it... Nazr to the bench... good point about how a starter can do against bench players... maybe Nazr could excel there.
     
  20. HelloIDistance

    HelloIDistance First Round Draft Pick

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    McDyess has been one of my favorite Pistons for awhile now. He has that great attitude and I really want to see the man get a ring, but he isn't getting it done anymore. With the emerging of JMax I don't see him getting many minutes anymore. If I were Flip my depth chart would be:

    PF: Sheed, JMax, Dyess
    Center: Davis, Nazr

    You can't deny JMax playing time anymore. The guy brings something no one else on our team seems to have anymore. Energy, and the willingness to pound the ball into the lane. You see his face while getting rebounds? He looks pissed when he goes up for that ball. Like it's his ball. That's what I like to see.

    Dale Davis has really shown what he can bring to the table in these last two games, as well. I don't expect him to have this kind of games every night, but half of what he did is fine with me. DD reminds me of Ben in a way. I don't know why we didn't play the man last year and more this year. If you give him a consistent 20ish minutes a game he will produce good numbers IMO.

    Amir Johnson won't see the court much this season. I think Dumars is "hiding" him so to speak and next year when we throw that contract on to him we will see what Amir has to offer.
     

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