1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

Plus/Minus and its relevance

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by TaS, Nov 30, 2006.

  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Sweet!

    Just what I suspected.

    I should have wagered my guess for Marion/Nash before I spoke. lol.

    Thanks!
     
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is something that I find interesting after playing with the filters a bit.

    Detroit has the following rankings this year:
    2-man combo 36th
    3-man combo 25th
    4-man combo 16th
    5-man combo 46th

    So we don't have a 1-2 punch like a lot of teams. We get better and better as you add to it. However, we have definately lost our 5-man dominance since last year. A weak link has ben introduced to the mix.

    Last year, our starting five was in 1st place by 2x the next closest combo. We actually had another combo in 28th place with Arroyo, Evans, Prince, Sheed, and Dyess.

    In the playoffs last year, we still had the best 5-man combo, but it included Dyess instead of Sheed. (Does this mean Sheed cost us the Championship?)
     
  3. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Damn, that is interesting.

    Sheed was definitely not his best that year.

    Is it safe to say that Nazr sucks?
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Nazr/Davis/McDyess/Murray?
     
  5. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Yes, Howard is paired up with Battie, a lot, in their starting lineup. And despite how good Howard is, their starting lineup is at a 52% win clip. Futher, this is the best any unit including Battie does. The rest are all severely negative, winning barely ever.

    As far as stats go, hey, I watch every Orlando game. I don't need the stats to see that Darko is one fine basketball player, doing a whole lot of little things as they say. Stats to me are just a way to talk to someone who does not watch the same games I do. Most Detroit Piston fans don't watch every Orlando game as I do and at least one other person here.
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I would go out on a limb and say that most Pistons fans don't even watch 50% of Pistons games.

    But I can't fault people for wanting to keep their marraiges intact. Luckily, the Pistons put my wife to sleep about half way through the first quarter. When she wakes up after the game, I pretend that I was cleaning the whole time.
     
  7. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I'm required to give a report after each game detailing how Rasheed did. It's that darn Carolina thing coming through...

    Thank goodness Perkins, Worthy, and Jordan are out of the league.
     
  8. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Here is some exploratory data mining from the NBA.com lenovo stats.

    What is the common theme in our top three 2-man combos?
    1) Sheed and Rip
    2) Tay and Rip
    3) Billups and Rip

    RICHARD!

    Howabout top three 3-man combos
    1) CBill Rip Prince
    2) CBill Rip Sheed
    3) CBill Sheed Tay

    CHAUNCEY!

    4-man
    1) Sheed CBill Rip Tay
    2) Sheed CBill Rip Dice
    3) Sheed CBill Tay Davis
    4) Sheed Rip Tay Davis

    RASHEED!

    5-man
    Here is where it gets crazy.

    There is no common theme. The top 3 5-man combos are comprised of the following players:
    Dice 1 time
    CBill 2 times
    Flip 1
    Delfino 1
    JMax 2
    Davis 2
    Rip 2
    Tay 2
    Blalock 1
    Sheed 1

    What does this all mean? I'm not sure. I think that it means that we are a pretty balanced team with an incredibly deep bench and many interchangeable parts.
     
  9. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Could you be so kind as to elaborate on that phrase. LOL

    Are you referring to oranges?

    :hoops:
     
  10. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    but of course. :)
     
  11. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I like how are bench is 4 guys plus 1 starter. If it works fine, fine, I want a solid 5 man bench unit.:cheerleader:
     
  12. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    One way I found years ago to watch sports and keep my marriage intact, even after 53+ years is that I tape the sports events and watch them later if they conflict with shows we want to watch. I just flick back and forth during the commercials to keep up with the game, but watch it later. Another advantage is that I can skip the commercials and those dad-blamed time-outs at the ends of games. Saves a lot of
    time. Also, I used to just not bother to watch if my team got beat anyway, but I don't do that anymore because I want to critique certain aspects of the games. That helps, too, because I can back up and replay things that I want to see again. I can watch them pretty well while I am on the computer, for instance.

    Lately, though, my wife has taken to watching games with me when there is a dearth of good shows on the networks, and she can then watch a show or two by replaying them, instead of taping the games.

    I think she is surprising herself on picking up some of the innuendos of the games. I know she is surprising me with it.

    Seems like nothing is perfect, though. Now that I have the DISH, I cannot get Piston games except on NBA League Pass. I lost the Fox
    Sports Network and the Pistons changed their other outlet in this area
    to something else that I can't get.

    That I why I am not posting so much on the Pistons this year. Got to look for a better plan next season. I have almost $200 committed for the NBA LP thing so I am not about to drop that.

    I am depending on you guys to glean how they are doing. I am still sticking to my prediction that the Pistons will finish slightly ahead of the Magic. And that will be in the upper echelon of the East.
     
  13. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Were're already #1 in the East. No one is going to catch us.
     
  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Instead of continuing to garbage up our Orlando draft pick thread with tedious statistical debates, I thought I would move it over here where it belongs.

    The point I want to address is that there seems to be a serious distrust of the +/- stat when it comes to Darko Milicic being ranked 1st on the Magic. Now according to the Lenovo stats, this is the only fluke in the entire league. What an incredible coincidence. Are the Magic really that unique that they could produce this lemon of a stat?

    Here are the current leaders (subtracting out players who have played less than 25% of the team's minutes).

    Atl- Childress
    Bos- Rondo
    Cha- May
    Chi- Deng
    Cle- Ilgauskus
    Dal- Nowitski
    Den- Camby
    Det- Billups
    GS- Biedrins
    Hou- Battier
    Ind- O'Neal
    Lal- Bryant
    Lac- Magette
    Mem- Gay
    Mia- J Williams/ Wade
    Mil- M Williams/ Redd
    Min- Garnett
    NJN- Collins/ Kidd
    NYK- Lee
    NOK- D Brown/ Stojakovich
    Orl- Total Fluke, ignore this one
    Phi- Webber/ Iverson
    Pho- Nash
    Por- Pryzbilla
    Sac- Artest
    SAS- Duncan
    Sea- Wilcox
    Tor- Parker/ Bosh
    Uta- Fisher
    Was- Arenas

    Earlier in the year, there was some sampling variance. But at this point, the cream has risen to the top. Besides Darko, is there anyone else on this list that sucks? ... or that we wouldn't be happy to trade next year's draft pick for straight up?
     
  15. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    First off, who is Lenovo? Honestly I have no idea.

    Second, I think the real question is...does this player truely contribute more to that team's success than anyone else on its roster? Isn't that what the stat presumeably says? That the player mentioned has the most positive effect on their respective team.

    Using that criteria and from watching basketball on NBA League Pass religiousy, I would say that this list looks about 16/30 = 53.3 % correct

    No there really isn't any bums on this list, but certainly a little less than half of these players are not all-star calibur or considered indespensible by their teams. For example, few would accredit Derek Fisher for most of Utah's success.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    And you call yourself an IT specialist Mo. :gun1:
     
  17. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    Nah, thats just what my paycheck says. :)
     
  18. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lenovo scores deal with NBA | CNET News.com

    I wouldn't say that it definitely tells you who the best player is, but if your superstar is near the bottom of your team in +/-, then you should probably accept the possibility that he has a serious hole in his game somewhere. Dwight Howard is a good example of this.

    Conversely, if you think a guy stinks, but he leads your team, it may turn you on to the little things that he is doing to be effective.

    Any system that ranks Billups and Rip at the top and Flip Murray and Nazr at the bottom just has to have some validity to it. I guess alphebetical order also ranks them that way, but that is a unique exception.
     
  19. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    That wasn't my point. My point was that it is suppose to reflect who contributes most postively to the team's success. Again, I find it difficult to accept that the success of the team lies more on Rondo than Pierce in Boston, Childress than Joe Johnson in Atlanta, Magette than Brand in Clipperville, Fisher than Boozer/D. Williams in Utah, Stojakovich than C. Paul...etc.. etc... etc... So I wouldn't invest too much in a system that only has roughly 50% accuracy in my humble opinion.

    That said I do see your point on how it may expose holes in ones game but I think that is really a wild assumption given the data.
     
  20. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Por- Pryzbilla
    This guy must be a leader of bums.
     

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