Pistons Vs Heat ~ December 29th, 2006

Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by Superstarov, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    16 Mile I think your analysis is right on the money.:thumb:
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    More on game review

    A few times we find Wade being met by Delfino on the perimeter. Each time, Wade sees a guy 1) a lot taller than he is. 2) a guy squared up and ready to move 3) A guy right up in his grill so he can't shoot. Each time, Wade decides to pass that ball away.

    For just under 2 full minutes, we went with Tay at power forward. CB on Williams, Rip on Payton, Delfino on Wade, Tay on Walker, and Dyess on Mourning. The score pretty much stayed at us plus 6 during this stretch.

    Tay scored 6 points in the last half of the 4th quarter. A last 2nd heave with his toe on the line that went in. His fancy behind the back dribble drive, and that bucket off a pass from Rip who had drove to the basket, drawing defenders. That was at the 3 minute mark. Clutch time.

    Other than not being able to guard Wade, here is what Evans did do positive. He alertly completed a steal (getting credit for it) when Dyess knocked the ball away from Shaq. He quickly passed the ball up to Billups who went down the floor for a fast break bucket off that turn.

    Evans got an offensive rebound, wisely decided to pass the ball out. Rip dribbled the ball in a bit and hit a jumper. No assist should have been awarded due to the dribbling, but that is what you get when you play at home. Friendly score keepers.

    Arroyo got all his 4 points at the line. Once on a drive in where he was fouled in the act. Another time from smartly catching one of their players out of position and diving into him just to pick up the foul, putting them into the penalty, and getting Arroyo to the line. His outside shot missed kind of badly.

    Delfino hit his first shot. Made one of two free throws. Got a dunk on a fast break. That was a very impressive sequence. Delfino saw the offensive rebound was going straight to Rip. Man did Delfino go into action mode. I mean he was moving. He was at the baseline, pretty much behind the other nine players on the floor. He called for the ball as he was sprinting and Rip hit him with a good pass. Delfino pretty much had to dunk the ball to avoid a block. And he did, with good elevation. Does not seem to be anything wrong with this guys knees at the moment. That was quite a display of health.

    Delfino also missed two outside shots. A triple try barely rimmed out. A shorter jumper missed short.

    A note on Shaq's positioning. For the most part, he just pushed his way to where ever he felt like going. Ben did his level headed best to make it hard for Shaq to do this. I am sure it helped tire the big fella out. But man, was Shaq ever getting good position on Ben. Fortunately, Shaq's shot was off just a bit.

    I see some complaining about Ben not helping out. Well, if you give less than 100% concentration toward Shaq, he will just go straight to right under the basket and receive the ball for a dunk. Just be glad Ben managed to stay out of foul trouble, stay guarding Shaq for us for the most part, and manage to pull down 14 rebounds. That is a whole lot right there. A guy can only do so much.

    Can't complain too much about the refs. But they did totally blow two calls. The out of bounds Flip got the tech for, of course that was our ball. And about the clearest case of goal tending ever this season by Shaq went uncalled. Kind of like justice though on that, cause last game Ben got away with one too.
     
  3. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Nice win but

    We still need to be concerned that that this game could have gone either way when it was tied at 99 with 2 minutes to go. We need to be able to stop Wade in crunch time and it appeared that the way he as feeling it, a shot by him instead of Haslem handling the ball in that possession just under two minutes could have made this more interesting. :confused: The closeness of the game and score will put some doubts in some NBA minds if we can really get past these guys even though we have been dominating the league.

    As Tim Legler said in his article, if Riles knows how to handle Shaq more effectively as the season progresses, we could see a different offensive set come May. Of course, Shaq could be worn down by then. :laugh:

    Hopefully when Hunter comes back the defense will improve some, but we still need to be concerned about the rebounding. The bench play is starting to turn around, just need to get more consistent in the scoring.
     
  4. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    I hate when I mess up my VCR Timer. I got 3/4 of the game. Accurate post guys.
    KCM,--Miami not as good as Spurs--BS!
    I was impressed with JWill, much smoother than the Mitten.
    One thing I noticed about both teams, when they shot there was no rebounder in the paint. If it didn't go in, uncontested rebound.
    Lee take your medicine.
    ArmyG, you're right we need to get bigger and a scorer. A 5 point win at home is not enough. I sence trouble.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    They aren't. Not yet.

    We played the Spurs on the backend of a road trip, without their All-Star shooting guard. We did not get their best game.

    I thought we got the best game the Heat can play right now. They will get better, we will have to get better. You cannot lose the battle of the boards, FG% and expect to win. You also cannot expect to "gut out" home wins and be considered dominant. A couple home cooking calls in Miami, and the outcome may have been different.

    Read this. Free your mind...
     
  6. ojay

    ojay Second Round Draft Pick

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    "Just another notch in the win column." My nitpicks:

    1) Williams/Wade: dribble penetration. Similar to what Parker/Ginobili could do to us, their 2 guards killed us in this column. Whenever they got the ball into the lane, it was a layup, an oop for Shaq, or something bad. And our infamous "front line" let them. Solution: We know that we can get into Wade's head easily. Don't be afraid to knock them on their asses!

    2) Solution for Wade. In general, Wade dominated that game. He got 14-for-20. When he's hot, there's not much you can do but shut down everyone else. Put a different guy on him (Lindsey comes to mind), give him different looks, and knock him down. He isn't a proven clutch player thus far, so him having the ball at the end of games could be a good thing for the Pistons.

    3) Solution for Shaq. The most dominating player in the game is NOT what he was before. He's definitely out of shape. I found that, when we pushed the ball, we made him run. Even if there's no plays in transition, he'll have to get his ass down to play defense. Make him pay. Defensively, we have 4 guys who can cover him adequately (Ben/Sheed/Dyess/Davis) so use those fouls especially when he's shooting bricks from the foul line. We also need to front him in the post and deny him position down there, because once he's deep, he's deep.
    Also, I like how our players fronted him with a little bit of double-team action. When Rip or someone would come up and give Shaq a little more existence of defense, he gave up the ball (via instincts of triangle offense).

    4) Chauncey and bad shots. Billups needs to take his time out there. He could have it in clutch time, set everyone else up, abuse his smaller defender, and take the 3, but he did have a bad stretch (start of the 3rd quarter). Especially out of halftime, he'll need to continue distributing the ball and not chucking up 3s and early shots like he did in this game. We don't need him all the time scoring the points to get the crew going after the half.

    5) Haslem and his jumper. We know he can hit that jumper from just outside the paint, so Sheed or Dyess should front him. The bad side is that we lose a rebounder underneath. But honestly, Haslem's jumper was the only thing going down in the clutch for the Heat.

    6) Bench production. I am proud with Delfino and Arroyo's performances in this game. Like Evans in the Spurs game, Delfino, I felt, gave the spark in the 3rd quarter where it mattered the most. Delfino got Evans' 2nd half minutes, and it was a good move. Evans played in the 1st half and pulled down some good rebounds then, but Delfino was certainly the better player today. When you need ball movement (via his slashing) and just maybe a more-rounded offensive player, he definitely did his job. If there's one thing, we know Delfino is the better finisher than Evans.
    Arroyo gave Billups good rest in the 1st half, and he did quite well minus the bad jumper he took. His cross-court pass to Hamilton was dangerous and lucky, but it worked well.
     
  7. Pastor Flournoy

    Pastor Flournoy First Round Draft Pick

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    Here is the Pastor’s Report Card for the Pistons-Heat game

    Ben Wallace (A-)

    Not only did “Big” Ben have a great rebounding game (14) and defensive game (2 blocks, 2 steals) but he also made the best of his limited offensive touches, including a dynamic pass off the rebound which resulted in a dunk.

    Rasheed Wallace (A-)

    Rasheed looked like a man possessed and on a mission to get his belt back. RW was huge from 3 point land (4-6) but missed a solid A because of only reeling in 3 rebounds.

    Rip Hamilton (A)

    Had a good shooting night (9-15) but his 9 Assist were huge. I would have gave him an A+ but his defense was lacking at times. However, he did a great job of getting Wade in foul trouble.

    Chauncey Billups (B)

    Don’t be fooled by the stats. The 30 points and 9 assist was nice but he played horrible defense and forced too many shots. However, only 1 turnover kept him from a B-.Next game he needs to beat JW up in the post to slow him down on offense.

    Tayshaun Prince (B-)

    Couldn’t seem to hold on to the ball, but he did come up big down the stretch. We will need bigger performance from TP during the playoffs. No one on the Heats roster should be able to guard him.

    Bench (A+)

    AM and ME were very quiet but CA and CD made up for it. I believe if CA was a starting PG he would be considered one of the top three passers in the league. He had three passes in limited minutes that made me go WOW! In regards to CD he might have one the game for us. His energy off the bench was crucial. The game was slipping away and he came in with a shot, dunk and ½ of three point shot.
     
  8. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Hoopsworld link

    Micro the thing that concerns me is the quote from the article that states that the Pistons are 29th in PAINT scoring. This is not good when you consider heavy play by starters on any given night could lead to tired legs. We need to set up or run more plays in the paint just to get our guys confortable with post moves, etc, when the perimeter shots are not falling. :confused:
     
  9. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    'Dre,

    Flip's answer to that during a post game presser was that the FTs are like paint scoring.

    A flippant answer if I ever heard one. :laugh:
     
  10. lemonpen

    lemonpen First Round Draft Pick

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    The radio post game show carried a long interview of one of the Piston assistant coaches (did not catch a name). He stressed that their pre-game strategy was to make Wade a jump shooter. He said If Wade hits the jumper, just tip your hat, blame the coaching staff, and move on. He mentioned that by backing off of Wade we cut his usual 11 trips to the foul line to 5. Wade got hot from outside making the most of what he was being given. There should be no defensive disrespect to Tay, Rip, Evans or Delfino.

    The coach also talked about how fortunate the Stones are to have Ben Wallace. He said no other team in the league has the luxury of garding Shaq 1 on 1, and that it offers a tremendous benifit in helping shut everyone else off. He credited Ben for "taking his lumps and making plays"

    Did anyone notice how J Will was getting into the lane. When defending the P&R our bigs did not show, allowing Williams to curl toward the basket unabated. The guard will be late getting to the other side of the pick 9 times out of 10. Once in the lane our bigs are helpless. When Ben/Sheed slide to the penetrating ballhandler Shaq makes himself a highly available target. It all starts with making Williams a shooter off of the P&R.
     
  11. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Passing is the key--not points in the paint

    When we play the good teams and get into trouble, we tend to still go one on one and nowadays, take a quick three. The quick look is a good weapon in our arsenal but only when mixed in with running the offense much deeper into the clock. Our offense is at its best when we pass--that is what we need to do with the good teams. Whether the points come in the paint or not is not really the issue. We are playing a version of Phoenix ball. If we pass for the open look, we will hit a high percentage. The scoring will be there. We really don't have the players to score down low consistently. Sheed is showing that he is far better outside. When Sheed is down low, he gets too frantic and often misses. Rip is better at the mid-range. Chaucey can get down low but even he threw up some wild balls against SA on drives. Against Miami, we did not use Ben enough to make Shaq honest--that would be going inside. Dyss has a low post game. For every successful post, Tay often loses the ball or misses. He is better outside, driving or the mid-range. But the key to our offense against the good teams is swinging the ball around. That makes Miami, a rather slow team, vulnerable. It makes SA, a team that collapes and gambles vulnerable.
     
  12. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    KCM, reading this article you would think the Spurs are a .500 club. I liked the way he jaxtapositioned smarts/stress and heart/aggressiveness. But then he goes RonRon and loses all credibility.
    How do you maintain a .889 win % with 29th best paint scoring. Smarts, less work bigger rewards, less injuries.
     
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Inside scoring tally

    When you add up our inside scoring, the free throws made when getting fouled going inside, and the scoring from going inside and kicking the ball out to an open man, the Pistons got more inside scoring than Miami in this game. Hard to believe. All game long I am tallying inside scoring for Miami. But only 4 points off kickouts. Thats right, Eddie and Damon Jones work elsewhere.

    Here is the data:

    Scoring inside, Mia. 52 points on 45 shots Det. 38 points on 28 shots

    Misc. F/T's Mia. 2 points Det 9 points

    Inside F/T's Mia. 11 points Det 16 points

    Kickouts Mia. 4 points on 5 shots Det 17 point on 12 shots

    Non-inside Mia. 32 points on 23 shots Det 26 points on 33 shots

    Total inside Mia. 67 points on 59 shots Det 71 points on 49 shots

    Surpringly, Miami was less efficient with their inside scoring than we were. Miami had 10 more shots either inside the square or from kickouts after the ball went inside the square. But Miami scored less points from their inside play, after you count us getting a more points at the line from busting it inside and forcing the foul.

    Conversely, it turns out that Miami was more effiecient from their outside shooting. What gives.

    Pretty simple. The Pistons were focusing on their perimeter game, forcing Miami to come out and guard the perimeter. So when we went inside, it was easy buckets for us.

    And, on the flip side of things, Miami, due to Shaq especially, forced us to really concentrate on our interior defense, leaving plenty of easy shots for Miami on the outside.

    Now, a lot of this was simply Miami shooting better from the outside than we did. I don't think our outside shots were that heavily contested.

    Bottom line though, no way you can complain about lack of inside scoring in this game when we outscored Miami from inside play. Despite all the fireworks from Wade, Shaq, and Williams, we used going inside to better advantage than they did.
     
  14. TheeTFD

    TheeTFD All-Star

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    Re: Inside scoring tally

    Non inside scoring @ 33 shots; inside shots @ 49. Maybe we were focusing on inside shots. But we didn't force them, we made the smart tactical play.
    Still Heat took 10 more inside shots. 59 to 49
     
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Re: Inside scoring tally

    To an extent, we were looking to go inside. However, trust me, we simply sat up a play to get an open outside shot many times in that game. I'd say the best part of what we did, the other team never knew if we were going inside or out the next play. They could have the perfect defense set up against us to prevent us from going inside, and bam, we hit them with a simple pick and roll with Sheed nailing a three. Frustrating as all get out to try to guard the Pistons. At least if we are hitting any shots at all from the outside. These last two games, for the most part the shot has not been falling. Just enough in the Miami game at least.
     

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