Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by Superstarov, Oct 2, 2005.
And here is the box score...
still up...still drinkin
watchin "inside the NBa" ans as stioopid as their crew is about games, they are funnnee as h-e-doublehockeystix"! Barf-ley says all 5 Pisti\ones should play in AllStar game.....they called this game "a real game'.....Kenny said Tay was our MVP lasyear(and he was), but barkley disagreed by implying Kenny"must be drinking"....and "i hope your kids dont grow up to be stupid"...funny ! I'm 42 today ...and I'm healthy AND hAPPY..thanx Bruddahs Micro, Ros, Zo and our crew. U guys bring spice to Piston Basketball and I appreciate u all....PEACE!!!:P
Y DO U HATE eVANS SO MUCH?
Is it a "new guy in town" thang? great report on the game though...I love Delfino. He's ready for 15 MPG..my bruddah
Heat matched us
They are still scary. We may have a slight egde on them overall but with Shaq early and Wade later--they can do damage to our defense like no other team. We stop SA better but we don't score as well on SA. Wade was getting way to easy looks and that happened a lot last year. I thought that we had a handle on Shaq in the second half. I like the fact that the bench can play good minutes and our offense can score points (but a little too much Phoenix ball tonight--we are not passing the ball enough). We have to move the ball on this team and use our athleticism.
you could argue that we won the game from the free throw line as well seeing as we had 9 more attempts than the heat and oh yeah we made ours
All the jump and pass actions he did looked like he was trying to get fouls called, good defense or just plain indecisiveness.
We pick up Elden. Cause it was just ugly the way Shaq bullied his way inside on us time after time in this game. EC can stop that.
Next, Hunter is coming back. I predict absolutely no time for Evans in the Miami series. (If one.) Instead, Hunter will play extensively to contain Wade. Basically, our rotation will be as follows. Starting 6 (Includes Dyess.) Arroyo, Delfino, Hunter, EC. Maybe Darko and Evans as the spare guys on the bench.
Anyway, we have the means to take their top two threats and shut them right off.
Lee, I sure hope you are right on Hunter. You know I cringe every time he is in the game because of his offense but it sure would have been nice to see Hunter on Wade for about 4-5 minutes in the 4th. Not sure EC is coming back. You are right about Evans--he has not shown that he can guard Wade any better than anyone else. I do like his contributions on the offensive boards, though. I thought Arroyo and Delfino played well--best I have seen out of Arroyo against a major team other than than one indiana playoff game. I noticed Delfino with the first team against the Clippers so I wasn't surprised about his key minutes. And, you gotta love Dyss. Still, this Heat team worries me because we don't stop their offense like we do other teams. Our 3 ball is a major weapon for us but still think we are better when we pass on SA and Miami.
I think that Lindsey will benefit from the faster offense just as the other players have. I'm not talking a renaissance in his game, but his "O" could be more effective if he was not forced to look to make the pass and shoot as the clock expires.
You might see a Hunter more likely to take the ball to the hoop himself, or just chuck a jumper. And that could be a good thing. The most painful part of Lindsey's offense is his inability to create. When he just reacts or spots up, he's not a bad player. I'm hoping "the system" will keep him from being a liability on the court.
Then again, will Flip even play him? Whose minutes will suffer for it? He could certainly help us on defense some nights.
hunter used to be a scoring machine, i think he'll benefit from the new offense.
there were several things to be worried about in this game, but then again there's no way we let williams do that well in the playoffs.
Motown's Quick 10 - Detroit vs Miami
Motown's Quick 10
On the issue of Lindsey's offensive effectiveness.....During Lindsey's tenure in LA (Shaq/Kobe championship era) he was a clutch 3 point shooter for them. He also made his early reputation at Jackson State as a scorer. It wasn't until his NBA days that he began to develop into one of the premier on ball defenders we've ever seen.
Chauncey's decison making in the first half of the game was poor despite all the made 3's, but his poise and leadership in the 4th once again proved why he is a MVP candidate. There is currently noone else in the league that I would feel more comfortable holding the ball in the last 2 mins of a game. I'd also be remissed if I did not mention that one "thread the needle bounce pass" by Chauncey early in the game. It was very John Stockton like. I have no idea how he got that pass through all of that traffic.
Since Shaq's return, Zo's effectivness in the game has dwindled. I was suprised to see that Miami did not try to play both Zo and Shaq simultaneously. That strategy worked well against us in the playoffs. BTW, Highlight of the game was that dunk by Dice on Zo. Man, that was NASTY!!!!
I am very happy with Carlos Arroyo's play as of late. He is working harder on defense and making great decisions on offense. His court vision is amongst the best in the league. That outside shot is falling with alot more regularity as well.
Delfino gave us a huge spark off the bench and in my eyes has solidified himself as the #2 scoring option off the pine. Delfino, not Darko is our secret weapon during the playoffs. Delfino's game is so, so versatile..his upside is incredible. Great passer, shooter and athleticism to boot. In a couple years we won't be able to afford to keep this guy on our roster.
Evans had a decent game. He is easlily the best hustle player coming off the bench. His skill is needed and I think along with Lindsey Hunter they could cause some havoc for opposing teams. Flip needs to give up the Evans = small forward expirement. Not happening. I see Evans as a situational player for us. Oh, and Evans couldn't slow down Wade if he brought a traffic light on the court. But then again, who can? As a whole, Evans has played pretty decent defense against shooting guards across the league. Unfortunately, he is not the defensive stopper that we thought we were getting a couple of months ago.
Last year based on our defensive effort, we would have loss this game by double digits. It seems as though we only play tight D in the fourth. We need to change that trend to get our bench some minutes. We no longer attack aggressively on defense and it shows in our rebounding and man to man defense. When was the last time you saw a Piston fight a screen in the first quarter? I can't wait for Lindsey to come back and remind our players how to defend with more intensity. This is what we are missing this year. If he can help us set a better tone defensively, 70 wins seems very attainable.
Ben definitely needs more touches in the paint. We also need more dribble penetration going towards Shaq's way. Basically we need to make Shaq defend. If Shaq is huffin' and puffin' on D, he will in turn be more lax fighting for position in the paint. Lower field goal pct. ladies and gents.
Dice and Sheed were very effective guarding Shaq tonight. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for Ben. Ben let Shaq establish himself in the post too easily all night. BUT......Big Ben did show up in the 4th quarter though (It's all the rave these days ). His block against Shaq was a momentum changer. Oh, and if we would have fouled Shaq hard in the paint the first two quarters of the game, he would not have had such a good half against us. He would have been forced to make some points from the strike. Somehow, we forgot this strategy.
In the end, its a victory. We should have blown this team out by 15 based on the current state of their squad. Come playoff time, Pat Riley will have this team playing alot better. Their pieces are not that far away from gelling. If they can manage to land a lights out shooter again they will be very dangerous in the playoffs. I think that Posey (who played pretty good D against Tay) and J-Will have integrated well in the system. Antoine does not appear to fit. Perhaps they trade Antoine Walker for a premier marksman?
miami played great, and we still won. i don't know what will make this team lose.
I know JD prides himself on not dictating who should play, etc, but if Flip doesn't play Hunter, you know JD is going to impose his will.
Watching the game some more
Been trying to rewatch the game. Too sick for the most part to get much wathced.
Delfino made a mistake not keeping track of things and not challenging that entry pass to Wade when Wade got under the basket. Normally, one mistake in a game is not worth mentioning. Just that its so rare in Delfino's case I thought I would point it out. I see one other poster already mentioned it too. For the most part, Delfino continually went to where he was suppose to be on defense.
Arroyo also rotated well defensively. The shot Payton made, Arroyo had a hand in his face even after just helping to defend a pick and roll play. Good hustle by Arroyo there.
Arroyo was plus 1 for the game. No big deal, but spelling Billups for a good long stretch and not losing any lead is in itself a big deal.
Delfino was plus 5 for the game. He was plus 12 at one point. (And if Flip would have taken him out at that point, it would have really made him look good.) Now, after he was plus 12, he had that defensive gaff which helped take some of the polish off his stint. Its actually pleasing that he even did any good on Wade at all. I guess it should not be too surprising. After all, Delfino is quick, and has some height. Wade chose to pass off rather than try to challenge Delfino a couple of times.
Evans was minus 5 for the game. But I won't fault Evans for this. Flip had him playing small forward, a position he does not do well at. (Even though in this case Miami had went small.) Anyway, Evans was guarding Wade a few times down the court, and Evans simply did not put up any resistance to Wade shooting, or driving past him. Just no resistance at all. Bad matchup. Then again, any strong scorer this season has been a bad mathup for Evans. (With the exception of Arenas.) I see one poster suggested Evans as a situational player. I can see that. Use Evans when there is an opportunity for him to shine. In other words, when there is someone in the game which he can guard.
I have a problem with using Evans as a situational player. We brought him to this team on the rep of being a defensive player. But he can't do that. Just not that many players he is needed to bring in to guard. If Evans can guard someone, so can Delfino. Delfino makes every one around him better for all his ball handling skills. Delfino needs more playing time, and more shots. Every minute you let Evans in the game, to what, shoot the ball, is a minute Delfino is not in. I would choose Delfino for the minutes. At least, lets give Delfino a ton of minutes similar to what Evans got earlier.
Too tired to post more at the moment.
Hold up..I've heard this before....
"See, I never just did things just to do them. Come on, what am I gonna do? Just all of a sudden jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch like it's something to do? Come on. I had a little more sense than that. [short pause] Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch.", - Rick James on Dave Chappelle Show
"I see one poster suggested Evans as a situational player. I can see that. Use Evans when there is an opportunity for him to shine.......I have a problem with using Evans as a situational player....." - Lee356 on PF.COM reflecting on Detroit vs Miami Game
"****** is a helluva drug." - Rick James on Dave Chappelle Show
Sorry couldn't resist. Just kiddin' with ya Lee. ;)
Don't kick the man when he's down. Wait till he's healthy and then kick him twice.
Hope you feel better soon, Lee.
Wow. I was just watching some highlights of the game.
On Sheed's 3 with just over a minute left, when CB penetrated the lane and then kicked it out to Sheed, CB got BLOWN UP by Shaq. I missed that when I was watching the game live.
jeesh, you're right!
Chauncey went flyin'!
I think Lee game me the flu, stuck at home drinking tea today. Rewatched the Pistons game, and slomo review, and came away with a different view than I had yesterday.
D'ing up Shaq:
Ben played a pure position game against Shaq. Ben would try and keep Shaq from the basket, and as soon as Shaq picked up his dribble, Ben would take a step back and put up his arms. Against this Shaq, that works, against a healthy Shaq, he's putting up 60 against that kind of D. Ben also spent too much time standing around on O, and letting guards get dribble penetration. Used to be, if someone beat our guards off the dribble, Ben would knock em down, not now. Ben seems intent on not committing fouls. A problem, but probably the easiest one to fix, so I'm not too concerned, but if our Bigs are playing like this, maybe Flip should be putting DDJ in for a few minutes, at least they could pick up some hard fouls, send a message, and make some guys afraid to come into the lane.
Sheed, CB, Rip, and Tay:
On again, off again games. CB got beat early by JDub. Sheed settled too often for three. But, when it counted, CB made great dishes, and Sheed played tough D in the second half. No complaints.
Delfino vs Evans:
Last night at chat, I said Del and Evans would make a great 2-3 combo. I was wrong. Del should have all of Evans minutes. Evans is a situational player. Good against certain matchups. Comparing him to Delfino last night is night and day. Delfino was just better on D and O. I know Evans doesnt want the Energy label, but that's what he is, he just makes too many mistakes.
On D, Evans kept losing Wade on picks. He was constantly trying to run around them, and guess were Wade would end up. He played too far off of Wade, letting Wade get the open J. And he failed to pick up the open guy. Delfino fought THROUGH screens and kept Wade in front of him. Two plays stood out and one play that stood out: Delfino covering Haslet, fought off a screen, stayed on Haslet, Rip leaves Peyton to help on Shaq (who had the ball), Shaq flips it out to a wide open Peyton, but Delfino was able to get to Peyton and put a hand in his face. 2nd, was Delfino covering Wade, fighting through a screen, getting in Wade's face, forcing Wade to pass the ball. Walker scored a 3, but that was Dice's fault for leaving him.
On O, it wasn't even close. Evans didn't have the ball passed to him once. 2 reasons, Evans doesnt put himself into position to get a pass. He stands on the perimeter, or he's trying to anticipate an offensive board. 2nd, I dont think the guards trust him to do anything other than take a wide open jumper with the ball. CB was constantly looking for Delfino, and Delfino either took a good shot, or kept the ball in play. Another instant that stood out. CB at the top of the key, CD on the baseline. CB gets the ball passed to him. Now Evans would have crashed the boards looking to get an offensive rebound. CD stepped back, because Chauncey was covered, he passed to CD for the open J.
Evans is a good spot up shooter, very aggressive on D, and O, but he just seems to be out of position all the time, and the team seems to be losing trust in his ability to handle the rock.
The only bad things about the game are fixable, Ben needs to stop worrying about picking up fouls, the guards need to get back on D faster, and Flip needs to give our guys a break, especially playind Delfino more, and one of the DDJ brothers.
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