Pistons Vs Bulls ~ December 16th, 2005

Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by Superstarov, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I don't agree with all of it, but that's a pretty good review Woody, nice job on your second post.
  2. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    Yes, though I have to take exception to the part about Delfino being slow in the head. He actually is one of our wiser ball-handlers on both the break and in half-court sets. Defensively he's a work in progress and he's still a little shy about shooting, but I like how he distributes the ball.
  3. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    evans can do a lot of things for the pistons. after some time he'll learn to pass.
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You know, I was one of the guys who thought Dupree should go, but Minny is using him in limited minutes to guard the best opposing player if Trenton Hassel is in foul trouble or having an off night.

    Dupree doesn't have Evans' range, but he could defend better and board just as well.

    I am guilty of buying into the hype that Mo was a better defender than he is. And his offensive skill set is very limited to taking the open J (which he nails at a nice clip) or putbacks. He cannot take his man off the dribble (worse than Ben) and in fact has a nasty habit of dribbling himself into trouble.

    He kinda reminds me of Darvin Ham circa 2000 when he was in Milwaukee. He's got a great motor and a lot of athleticism, but it's not enough to cover up for a very limited skill set. Coincidentally, they both went to school in Texas.

    Hopefully when Lindsey gets back, we can field some kind of pitbull lineup with Arroyo-Hunter-Evans-Dice-Wallace/Wallace. I'm sure Mo will thrive in an up tempo running game where the pace is less deliberate and his athleticism can be showcased.
  5. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    I agree. Nice post. I don't agree with everything either, but I'll tell you this. I cannot believe how bad our bench is. I thought we were going to have a really good bench when the season began. I think our bench is horrible.

    That may change with this homestand. I certainly hope so, but I'm losing faith quickly.

    Bad boys: Thomas, Dumars, Laimbeer, Mahorn, Aguire

    bench: Vinnie, Rodman, Salley, Edwards...omg...need I say more?

    Todays bench: uhmmm Dice maybe?

    No comparison

    Look at San Antonio & their bench. I'm thrilled with the 17 -3 start our great starting 5 brought us. But without a bench in the playoffs...:rip:

    We need a VINNIE! A Vinnie, Dice, and Hunter may be enough to get by the Spurs (not to mention a couple of teams in the East we need to beat first).
  6. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko bias

    it seems that both sides of the darko debate are very biased. i think people take darko's laid back personality as being unmotivated and not interested. some people understand it some don't. darko did not play bad. people say he doesn't rebound but he got two offensive rebounds 1 on jmax's miss. yes he concentrates on blocking shots but who says that's a bad thing?? he's really good at it. when jmax jacks up shots it's motivation and drive but when darko shoots he's in love with the 20 footer.

    this bull about making the most of minutes makes me angry. the game is already decided all the guys on the floor are doing are padding thier stats. nothing you do on the pistons especially in garbage time will get you more minutes. yes. jmax is working hard in garbage time right now jacking up shots. lets see how hard he works in year 3 or garbage time.

    the fact is darko simply had an ok garbage time performance. nothing great nothing too bad.
  7. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    actually in the playoffs the minutes go down for the bench so it isn't as important. but you underestimate our bench. carlos arroyo is much better than you think the guy can score and pass. mcdyess can carry the bench if need be. lindsey can shut other teams second unit point guards down once chauncey gets the starter in foul trouble. dale davis is a vet that gave our bigs trouble last year. delfino, evans and darko our the wild cards. 1 of them needs to become a solid contributor by the end of the season i'm betting on all three being ready if need be.

    our bench is not horrible. they just don't play enough to get thier game going. our bench could play with and beat bottom dweller starting units. give them some time.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm tired of this "jacking up shots" crud. He's MAKING them. It's ok to shoot when you hit a nice %. And that is what Jmax does.

    Darko is in love with the 20' shot. He's wide open with room to go to the hoop and posterize someone with his sick athleticism. But he doesn't. He'll take a front of rim clanger ala Bruno Sundov.

    I don't think our expectations could be any lower for this pick than they are now. All people want to see is that he is trying. That he values every opportunity. This team will win without DMC and I trust Joe to do what it takes to stay competitive in the future. It's Darko blowing his own career, just like Nikoloz Tskitishvili (the bad version of Zaza Pachulia).
  9. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    That was impressive. 110 pts and the most shots taken by any1 player was 13 and that was by Tay.....which I never have a problem with.
    The team made good use of the 3, inside/out and late in the shot clock while wide open, and 6 players in double figures and winning the boards.........NOW THATS DEEEEEETROIT BAS-KET-BALL!!!!!

    I loved the lineup of x2,Arroyo,Delfino, & Rip........GREAT lineup, and this helps in getting Tays mins down.

    I wish the bench was more productive and exciting, but realize this the primary responsibiltity of the bench on this team is to log mins and keep the starters mins down, and technically that is happening. What we need is to make sure Tay, Rip, and Ben don't get worn down come playoffs. I think that this bench will help in that. Come playoffs the bench will get cut to 7 or8, with LH, Dyess and Davis logging the major mins with LosDos, and Evans getting spot mins. Now if we keep this group together next season they may become a very potent group.
  10. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    i call it jacking up shots because it doesn't matter if he's open or anybody else is open on the court. if jmax touches it the ball is going up towards the rim. i never said anything about him making them or not. jmax is in love with his shot there are other people on the court open and othe passes to make with his great passing ability but instead he shoots it.

    darko can hit the 20 foot shot and that opens up the drives. he isn't shooting contested jump shots. he's shooting what the defense and the play call flip makes gives him.

    darko is trying when appropriate. it was garbage time so he was basically out there running the time out like the other players out there. the refs weren't giving 100% once the game was decided and i don't think anybody was. if you aren't interested in padding stats garbage time isn't the best time to get minutes. i'm tired of this darko "not trying" crud. people complain all he does is try to block shots. well he's racking up the blocks. it doesn't take effort to block shots???
  11. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Michael Jordan also had this problem.

    http://www.82games.com/0506/05DET11A.HTM

    I don't blame you. Even lazyberbs sees that his effort is not all there. It's tough when you can't see what most everyone else is.

    I'm out on this. In 2 hours, I have exhausted my DMC posting energy. Plus the Sausage King is getting ticked off with all the DMC stuff. You can have the last word.

    Great game by Ben last night. Great game by Sheed. Luol Deng scoring so easily on Tay is a little distressing. That kid is a stud.
  12. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Sounds a lot like Sheed's game. I'd rather have a 7 footer who can shoot the J take an open one, rather than trying to put it on the floor. And JMax does chuck up a lot of shots, and he has been a terrible rebounder on D. And where's Dale? No one seems to criticize him because he hasnt been able to step up to the plate and help reduce some of the minutes Ben and Sheed are playing.

    We win a game by 20, and everyone wants to criticize Darko because he aint a Garbage time supa sta. Darko haters, think about this, how many guys on our team can cover an opposing center? 4, and you guys want to cut one of them. Stupid.
  13. 16 Mile

    16 Mile Bench Warmer

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    Wave, you shouldn't have put up that link, went to it, compared Jmax's to Darko's, guess what, statistically speaking, DMC is much more efficient than JMax. A couple of things that stood out:

    Shot selection:
    Jmax, 63 % of his shots are jumpers, of which he was assisted on 25% of them.
    Darko, 55% of his shots are jumpers, of which he was assisted on 100% of them.
    Sounds like Darko is taking open J's off the pass, while JMax is dribbling around looking for a shot.

    Jmax, 44% inside, Darko 45%, sounds like a tie. JMax does have a better shooting percentage.

    Shot clock:
    Jmax shoots 51% of his shots with more than 15 seconds left on the clock, doesnt look like he's making that extra pass for the open guy. And when you consider he shoots more shots per minute than any other Piston, I'd say he's jacking up shots.
    Darko shoots 70% of his shots with less 16 seconds on the clock, sounds like he's the last option.

    Assists are equal

    Rebounding:
    Jmax is an offensive rebounding machine, crushing Darko. But on Defensive boards, its the exact opposite.
    In 28 Defensive rebounding attempts, Jmax got 1.
    In 89 Defensive rebounding attempts, Darko got 13, 15% to 4%.

    How come no one complains about Jmax's Defensive boards. Looks like Jmax is cherry picking on D, letting other guys get the boards so he can get the breakaway. Anyone think LB would have tolerated that?

    JMax isn't bad, I'm glad we have him, but he aint doing anything that Darko isn't. I think you guys misinterpretted Darko's Stash for lack of motivation, I do the same thing with Jake Plummer.
  14. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    why this bench looks bad is bacuse they are not good defensively. this bench will look better when lindsey comes back. don't forget about dale davis this was the mein reason he brought him here. he will be huge down the road. i think a way this bench might be able to do good is this lineup:
    PG: Arroyo: he can create shots for himself and others. anytime we need D we can always go to lindsey after he heals. for now though i'll stick with carlos.
    SG: Evans: very athletic can put back shots, shoot, block, and board good for his size. if the team wants better ball handling, and passes off the bench they'll go with delfino.
    SF: Dice: we know he's solid.
    PF: Dale Davis: If darko is going to keep wanting to block shots the pistons will need someone there ready for boards, and more blocks if the other team gets more offensive rebounds. Dale perfectly fits this role.
    c: Lets hope this kid gets better at rebounding and offensively. he will give us a great shotblocking off the bench though.
  15. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Review of game

    I reviewed the game. Even I did not realize how much effort Darko put into this game watching it the first time. Sure helps to have frame by frame.

    Lets talk about a couple of rebounding situations Darko was in. One time, he got perfect position under the basket. But the rebound went over him. He did not go up for it. Lack of effort? Wrong. Watching a bit closer you see Darko was shoved under the basket. As the rebound came off, Darko was still flying thru the air from the shove. Not a lack of effort at all, just a missed call by the officials.

    Next, that rebound Darko went up for a few times but failed to gather in. Gee, must be lack of effort. Wrong again. First of all, the rebound was not to Darko at all. There were three Chicago players that rebound was headed toward. Darko went up, used that very long arm of his to try to tip the ball toward himself. He went up a couple more times battling for that thing. Excellent effort, just no bound.

    Bottom line. Darko does a lot of things very well rather effortlessly. Sorry Darko haters. He is just a very good basketball player. No lack of effort there at all.
  16. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    everyone's bench was better back then, there were less teams in the league so the talent wasn't spread out so thin
  17. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Maybe, but it's not even close. Besides, look at San Antonio's bench. :nod:
  18. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    Lee, how is one in "perfect position" when the ball goes flying over one's head???? It seems like the place I would want to be is where the ball goes.

    Poor Darko. Shoved by another player. They shouldn't do that to him when the incompetent official is looking the other way.

    You really need to decide whether in your future you will be a basketball analyst , a referee, a coach...or comedian :D
  19. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    The bench was actually very effective last night, especially in the 2nd quarter when it still mattered. Arroyo and Dyess especially played well.

    'Sheed is playing his best ball as a Piston right now, IMO.
  20. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    His 3's are beautiful to watch. Kinda hard to believe his 3% (.476) is better than his 2% (.444).

    And when you compare last year's 3% (.318) you can see the affect Flip's offense has had on him...and probably a big reason Ben's not getting as many touches. Based on season-to-date numbers, he's on track to attempt 33% more 3's than last year.

    BTW...look where the Piston starters (except Ben) rank in 3% in the East...and don't forget to remove the top 4 based on games started.

    http://tinyurl.com/8plpe

    It's unreal!

    Nice to see my buddies Mike James & Mo Pete not far down the list :eyebrows:

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