Pistons Pre-season games thread

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by kpaav, Oct 10, 2013.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I agree, but until it manifests on the floor, it is what it is.
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  2. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Pope's new to the Detroit and doesn't know the area that well yet.
    Maybe Mo is concerned about this and won't let him leave the bench.
  3. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    How long is Pope's hair?
  4. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Actually, the line is he is a great shooter. Some nights. Some nights not so great. The main thing we need him to be is good enough to always draw a defender out to the 3 line so our bigs have room to operate. We will see. If he can't do that, Singler seems ready to.
  5. webz

    webz All-Star Snub Administrator 2x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Post game quotes had Mo and Chauncey talking about Pope's shot selection.

    With the pre-game benching, I think someone whispered in Mo's ear that he was starting all his SG capable players (CB, Singler, KCP) so had nobody to sub in off the bench. Fair enough. But I agree he should have gotten more than 17 mins, especially with Kyle in foul trouble and CB racking up over 30 in the pre-season.
  6. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Maybe Mo just wanted to get an extended look at Kyle Singler to get a feel of what kind of things he's capable of doing.
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  7. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Plus, Singler was playing out of his mind. Granted it's preseason, but perhaps Mo was seeing how long he could ride it.
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  8. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    Yeah.
    I doubt he has access to Larry Frank's game film from last year when Kyle got all those minutes.
    Poor Singler must feel like he's starting his rookie year all over again.
  9. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Mo is too busy preventing that woman from running around in a neighborhood she doesn't know than watching old game films.
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  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    I rewatched the game. Watched a lot of stuff in frame by frame. Really enjoyed watching the win again. Some corrections / additions to my game report:

    I over sold Drummond, and undersold Mitchell. It was Mitchell out there for 21 plus points out of 24 when we were up 24 just before the end of the half. I had failed to note Mitchell entered the game for Drummond when we were just up 3 to start the game, and again Mitchell replaced Drummond for the last couple of minutes of the half. And it was not Mitchell just happening to be there. Mitchell was involved in play after play with very positive results play after play. Mostly on the defensive end, but his 4 for 4 was mostly in that first half too. (including a dunk by Mitchell from a lob on one of several fast breaks Bynum led well in this game.) So why was Mitchell not so high in the plus minus at the end of the game? For one, Mitchell came in toward the end of the 3rd quarter, where Bynum (no, I am not hating on Bynum, just telling the facts here. Bynum had a good first half.) was shot over without contesting the shot at all, twice, and then threw the ball away to give them another fast break bucket. 8 quick unanswered points.

    Then the opening of the 4th. We put a unit out there that was doomed. Siva, Pope, JJ, Mitchell, Drummond. Four rookies, and JJ who could not contribute any toward ball handling. Siva is a weak scorer. Pope is struggling with his shot. So what did we get? Drummond trying again and again to do too much. Sure, practice makes perfect - later Drummond finally hit a hook shot. But he missed several early fourth and this all meant poor Mitchell was seeing his real high plus fritter away. And then you had Pope jacking up shots. Just because we had a bit of a lead I guess and these guys need practice. But it was not winning basketball for this game. Don't get me wrong. This is a meaningless preseason game, so player development is the way to go. Just wanted to explain why things were not going so well.

    So we pretty much bring all our starters back and win the game. Only Bynum is in for Siva. (on the strength of two back to back triples by Singler then Billups just before the 5 minute mark (followed by a layup by Bynum to get us an 8 point lead again), after the game was tied, and then Billups 3 in the last couple of minutes.) The Wizzards' biggest play down the stretch? Find Bynum, shoot over him. They were killing us shooting over Bynum, plus Bynum threw another one away to make it worse. But Bynum did do some scoring there, and he had that assist to Billups for a three. They did score inside some too down the stretch, but Drummond stiffened up his defense and choked most of that off - and so they picked mostly on Bynum.

    I watched for signs of organization. When Siva and Billups left the floor in the first quarter, we were up 10, and every offensive set had looked professional, well done, with everyone knowing their roles. Siva and Billps were sharing the point duties 50 / 50, and both were doing well keeping things organized and flowing smoothly. The best part of the stint there with Siva and Billups in together was with Siva, Billups, JJ, Mitchell, and Monroe on the floor. They did a plus 7 in a couple of minutes just before going off the floor.

    Now Bynum came in. No organization. Bynum did find Drummond once and Mitchell twice for dunks, and he did score himself a few times, as well as run some fast breaks well. But run sets where everyone was organized, in the right place. No, none of that. Perhaps two plays looked ok in that regard. Got to like the results there though. We went up 50 - 27 with Bynum and Pope in. Mostly, the guys on the floor with him were Pope, JJ, Mitchell, and Harrellson. Three rookies and JJ. So could anyone have organized these guys. Probably not. Perhaps what Bynum did, primarily score himself and use that threat to set up plays for slams - and some fast breaks, was all he could do. Just saying, things did not stay organized. Nor did they stay organized toward the end of the 3rd when Billups sat and left Bynum out there to run the point.But the fact that the team was disorganized to start the 4th - that was because of the unit out there rather than disorganization left from Bynum trying to run the point.

    What could we have done different. Pretty simple. Start Siva and Pope, with Singler, Monroe, and Drummond up front. Now you let Monroe work the post. And it should have worked just fine. Siva would have kept the team organized, and Billups could have come in to keep the team organized when Siva sat. Pope could have played most of the game, with Singler relieving him at shooting guard some when JJ came in to play some small forward.

    In sum, we actually did not have to play Bynum, and we would never have had to witness Bynum repeatedly getting shot over without being able to begin to contest the shot. PS, yes, I watched Siva closely in this regard. He was not having this problem. Apparently, while Siva and Bynum are both listed the same height, Bynum is a lot shorter. I know people like Bynum, but me, I don't like poor defense. Bynum did have an overall good game in this one, but really, we would not need his scoring, nor his assists, basically none of his offense even including the well run fast breaks, if he was not in there to give up so many points.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    One more thing. The Pistons could have started Billups, Pope, JJ, Monroe, Drummond. With Monroe the featured scorer, and JJ and Billups, and Pope too, being able to keep the Wizzards from clogging the middle on us, it should have worked fine. Then you have Singler available to play backup shooting guard and backup small forward. Mitchell and Harrellson are there to spell our bigs. Siva steps in for Billups as needed.
  12. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just did some calcs to see how the preseason has panned out stats-wise. All non percentages and ratios have been adjusted to per 36 minutes. Jennings and Stuckey are not shown since they were only in one game each.

    Points/36 (shooting percentage):
    Monroe: 17.2 (.397)
    Singler: 15.7 (.440)
    Drummond: 15.6 (.578)
    Villanueva: 15.2 (.424)
    Bynum: 14.5 (.545)
    Jerebko: 14.1 (.386)
    Smith: 13.8 (.442)
    Harrellson: 13.6 (.276)
    Pope: 11.8 (.286)
    Billups: 11.0 (.304)
    Mitchell: 9.9 (.733)
    Siva: 9.5 (.333)

    * note that this is traditional shooting percentage, which makes 3-point shooters look bad

    Rebounding:
    Drummond: 13.4
    Harrellson: 9.7
    Mitchell: 9.6
    Jerebko: 8.8
    Villanueva: 7.8
    Monroe: 7.3
    Pope: 6.8
    Smith: 5.8
    Singler: 5.1
    Bynum: 2.4
    Siva: 1.7
    Billups: 1.4

    Assists (assist to tov ratio):
    Bynum: 8.2 (2.43)
    Siva: 7.3 (1.37)
    Billups: 5.5 (3.01)
    Smith: 3.4 (0.80)
    Harrellson: 2.9 (3.00)
    Monroe: 2.5 (0.82)
    then Singler, Pope, Drummond, Mitchell, Jerebko, and Villanueva (doesn't matter for these guys)

    Steals:
    Smith: 2.9
    Pope: 1.8
    Siva: 1.7
    Monroe: 1.5
    Singler: 1.5
    Harrellson: 1.0
    Bynum: 1.0
    Drummond: 0.9
    Jerebko: 0.9
    Billups: 0.5
    Mitchell: 0.4
    Villanueva: 0.000000000000

    Blocks:
    Harrellson: 2.0
    Drummond: 1.9
    Mitchell: 1.7
    Smith: 1.4
    Villanueva: 0.8
    Monroe: 0.7
    Pope: 0.6
    Jerebko: 0.6
    Billups: 0.5
    Singler: 0.2
    Bynum/ Siva: 0.0


    To me, Harrellson is the biggest statistical surprise (maybe because I didn't get to see him play a single second). Good in blocks, rebounding, steals, and assists. His offense appears highly inefficient, but I hear he can shoot. I'm already leaning toward him as a stretch 4 over Charlie, but only if he can knock down 3's in a real game at a 30% rate.

    Drummond is 3rd in scoring, has high efficiency, and is 1st in rebounding by a country mile. Doing his thing. He also shot .517 FTs so far FYI. Acceptable improvement. Mitchell is up there in the rebounding category-- something he should always be able to do when put in the game at least, even if his number isn't called on offense.

    Bynum and Siva are playing the pure point guard role, with WB dishing out slightly more assists and with less turnovers. Chauncey plays it safe and therefore has less assists and almost no turnovers.

    Josh Smith "steals" the show in the steals category. Pope and Siva were next best. Rookies hustling!


    Any other observations or things that don't jive with expectations? I wish that I could pull some more advanced stats like PER, eFG, TS%, ORAT/DRAT, but nobody is bothering to compile them and it's not worth doing it manually. I wouldn't put much into these early stats considering all of the lineup experimenting, loafing by vets, and weird competition (Israel for example), but I still find it interesting.
    raxrets, coynejeremy, Lee356 and 2 others like this.
  13. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    @TaS, I'm guessing Jorts is benefiting from not really playing. Nice job!


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  14. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He only needs 37 minutes because he's so intense.
  15. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I had a feeling when it came down to frame-by-frame analysis that Bynum actually played poorly.
  16. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Luckily for Bynum, the Pistons video room still uses 2009 era frame rates. When they upgrade, they are going to be shocked at what they see.
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  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Preseason/ per 36:

    Chris Paul:
    21.5 pts on .478 shooting.
    9.72 assists
    3.85 turnovers
    2.52 a/tov ratio

    Will Bynum:
    14.5 pts on .545 shooting
    8.22 assists
    3.39 turnovers
    2.42 a/tov ratio


    Despite his less efficient shooting, I'd still have to give the overall edge to Chris Paul due to his scoring volume. In order for Will to get to that level, he needs to look for his shot more often and be more selfish.
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  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Chris Paul should definitely have to compete for his job in camp against some scrubs trying to make the 15th man spot on a bad team. It's only logical.
  19. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Did you factor in how many turnovers Chris Paul's teammates were making, especially after Paul started the game and got them organized but was then sitting on the bench while they were creating turnovers?
  20. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    To Lee's credit Bynum is not a good floor General, which is why he's a guy making less than $3M/yr. He's flawed, but most BACKUP PG's are, which is why they're backups instead of starters. Thus making Will one of the best BACKUP PG's in the league.
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