Pistons Negotiated as a Team

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    I believe Ben's problem with Flip primarily had to do with his inability to respect a coach that does not take charge. Flip lacked control of the team. It is unlikely that this is the scenario in Chicago. Ben wasn't a problem until last year although it was documented that he had differences of opinions with other coaches. Lack of respect is the key word here easybuckets. You can look the entire season for this Ben rebellion you're expecting. I don't think you will find it. At that point, will you drop this thought of yours that a player who once universally epitomized the concept of hardwork and team play has magically morphed into an egotistical, uncoachable, aging malcontent?
     
  2. Pwn Toney

    Pwn Toney All-Star Forum Donor

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    There's nothing to support that argument. Ben never refused to go in a game with LB, or even The Cola for that matter. He may not have liked Cola all that much, but he did respect him. I'm willing to bet that Flip actively lost the respect of Ben Wallace with his passive behavior. He wasn't man enough to tell Ben he didn't agree with him. He probably just sat there nodded his head yes and thanked him for talking to him. Then proceeded to quietly and passively ignore Ben's suggestions and do it his way. Flip is not blameless just because people don't like the way Ben showed his displeasure.
     
  3. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    I wouldn't be surprised if Ben turned malcontent -- he's done it before, Skiles seems to be a candidate for that sorta thing, and Ben's ego has ballooned since 04. But there's a difference between the respect/dislike combo and the disrespect/dislike combo. Only Flip so far has managed the second. I doubt we'll see it out in the open, esp. because Ben's got something to prove this year. He'll want to show people he'll earn that contract and he'll want to show Joe Dumars that DEEEtroit Basketball (Chicago style) is still effective.
     
  4. easybuckets

    easybuckets First Round Draft Pick

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    Flip did it his way because he was the coach! You can't have a player on a team who defies the coach. Look how calm and mild mannered Phil Jackson is as a person and how good a coach he has been. You don't have to be a tyrant to be a good coach. The concept of a good teammate is being unselfish and working together as a unit. Ben was no longer willing to work with the coaching staff. Did Ben also have no respect for his teammates, his fans, or Joe Dumars? And Ben was really angry when the pistons organization wouldn't fight his brother's suspension from the Palace because the brother was involved in the Pacer's fight. How unreasonable was that? Also remember the Pistons gave Ben's nephew a place in the summer league. Remember how supportive every one was Ben was involved in the Pacer's mess. If you are a professional athelete on a team and making 6 million you need to follow the rules. Ben's behavior last season was wrong and while I loved him while he was here, I am not sorry he is gone. I don't think he will respect Skiles either when he doesn't agree with Skiles' coaching or game decisions. I'm not convinced that what Chauncey said was true, that the conflict between Ben and Flip did not make any difference to his teammates. Ben could benefit from an anger management program in my opinion. The Pistons and the fans gave Ben lots and lots of love. He should have no resentment against us. I can't blame Flip Saunders for the fact that Ben left. Ben wanted the money! And now he wants to disrespect the Pistons and the fans.
     
  5. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    1. Almost every player has a bone to pick with his coach. It may not become public, but it happens every day, at every NBA practice or game. Maybe it's playing time, maybe it's the coach upset about shot selection and the player not being able to handle criticism (who amongst us is good at that?).

    2. All great teams have an explosive personality dynamic. I truly believe it is a necessary ingredient of success. Sometimes the coach is the powderkeg (Larry Brown, Greg Popovich), sometimes it is a player, (Larry Bird, Michael Jordan). Sometimes, and this is why Phil Jackson is so successful, the personalities are so over bearing, so demanding, so overwhelming that it takes a specific type of coach to keep them at a low simmer, instead of a raging boil. Chuck Daly did this with the Bad Boys.

    In the case of the 2004 Lakers, my take is that with Malone, Shaq, Kobe and Payton it was simply too many personalities, even for a master team builder like PJ. Two superstar primadonnas are enough.
     
  6. MotownPride

    MotownPride Starter 2x Fantasy Champion

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    The backlash we heard from Ben seemed to me at least to be specifically aimed at Flip not the organization or the fans. I have no idea where this anger you have is coming from. In fact, I don't ever remember him voicing any overly negative comment about anyone in the Pistons organization outside of Flip. Now that I think about it, your attack on Ben seems just as spirited or harsher than anything he ever suggested against Flip. So.....maybe we all can benefit from anger management if thats the case. Again, there is nothing wrong with defending a comment made against you in the media. Have we conveniently forgotten that Flip struck first? Ben Wallace has does nothing that has convinced me that he is not a good guy. The entire Pistons organization appears to still have great respect for him, unlike the Larry Brown fiasco. Perhaps more should follow the Pistons organization's lead....wish Ben well and hope that we destroy Chicago during the regular season and the playoffs.
     
  7. easybuckets

    easybuckets First Round Draft Pick

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    Remember Latrell? Now that must have been a challange to coach a whacko hothead like him. Did Flip have any conflicts with him?
     
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Flip let Latrell do what he wanted to do. He was hands off.
     
  9. Darth Tater

    Darth Tater All-Star Forum Donor 6x Fantasy Champion

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    But Latrell was "hands on".
    Where do you think Flip picked up that neck tic?
     
  10. hack

    hack First Round Draft Pick

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    IMO Lakers 04 was a case of organizational arrogance biting them in the ass. They could have beat us, but by the time they realized how much hard work it would require, the infighting started and then they packed it in. Somewhat similar to what happened to us this year, although we at least had the heart to take Game 5.
     
  11. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I love that clip as well. That's the definition of "feelin' it" right there. Each shot came from farther and farther out and had a higher degree of difficulty. The last one was almost from half court!

    We need more of the aggressive Tayshaun. His teammates have to start getting him going before games.

    "Hey Tayshaun, guess what Wade just called your momma?"
     
  12. linwood

    linwood All-Star

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    I watched every game of Tayshauns 4 years at UK. He has an incredible amount of talent. For better or worse, he always plays within the system. Draw up some plays, make him an option, and he will score 20 a game, no doubt in my mind.
     
  13. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    I agree Linwood. I think it is just not in Tay's demeanor to demand the ball. The coaching staff is going to have to call some plays for him to take advantage of Tay's skills. He could put up huge numbers in the right system.
     
  14. pass99

    pass99 All-Star Forum Donor

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    As has been discussed ad infinitum. I see the pistons and the league going toward a more open style which does not bode well for those that like set routines. Either he gets more aggressive (slashing) and forgets holding the ball 10 feet in the air (which helps set up the defensive), or his role will be diminished.
     

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