Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by roscoe36, Oct 6, 2006.
yup. i agree that is a definite possibility.
Re: Ben rips Flip
Gosh, you ain't kiddin'. That was quite a rip job by Ben. I think I need to sit back and digest that one for a while. Funny how this turned from Ben being tight lipped to having an all out explosion. Looks like he didn't take to kindly to the whole Ben prevented us from getting pass Miami theory Flip cooked up. Fuel for the rivalry I guess. Still have to digest what I read.
That was a great interview/article...it confirmed all I had suspected about Ben's departure...and a lot I have suspected about Flip's character and his ability to lead a team.
For anyone wanting to characterize Ben as a malcontent
You're talking about a guy that flourished under the coaches that respected him and he respected back. Flip clearly had no respect for Ben because he didn't fit his offensive playbook...and, as Ben made clear in the interview, Flip doesn't even own a defensive playbook. Why Joe brought him here, the former defensive capitol of the NBA, I have no idea...except that he was one of the only guys available at the time.
I still contend that we would have done no worse last season had Joe hired Laimbeer instead. At least he has the defensive mindset that got the Pistons a title...and IMO, all of the players respected him: his legacy as a player that won it all and as a coach that has won it all on a professional level.
Now...Ben has left...the face-of-the-franchise...a 4-time DPOY...a guy that every one of the Piston players loved and respected for what he does best. But he didn't fit in with Flip's 'plan'. Flip ruined a great team chemistry that was founded on defensive principle.
Don't be surprised when Chauncey bolts at the end of this season.
The article has served to reinforce my belief that Joe & BillD made a horrific mistake in turning out LB. The more I think about all that has happened...the more I shake my head.
Note the original title of this thread. Flip was never interested in 'negotiating'. He brought his system in without regard for what the Pistons are/were.
My sentiments exactly detteam. :(
in his training camp log today blakely asks whether we really ever knew Ben
and i'm thinking to myself: "what a bizarre question to ask!" of course we didn't know ben. nor should we feel entitled to think that we now know the "real" ben wallace. we see these guys play basketball, which certainly can tell us something about their character. perhaps we read some stories about some of them off the court (i.e. Indy's Jackson) and maybe from that we can draw some idea of their decision making ability, etc... but i really wouldn't kid myself that i know something about these players as human beings based on the content of comments that they may or may not have made in just such terms to an interviewer who is getting paid to write a story that people will want to read. it's certainly entertaining to speculate as to what feelings were involved last season and over the summer and even more fun when you get an article like this that throws us some nuggets of maybe-truth to toss on the fire, but it might not be a bad idea to take a step back too.
as numerous posters on the forum have said: clearly the blame falls somewhere in the middle, or rather, everyone involved ought to shoulder some responsibility for last season and for the parting of ways between Ben and the Pistons. Really, beyond that, how much more --- that is meaningful and serious, i mean --- is there really to say about the issue?
Here is what Chauncey had to say: "I don't think he was any different towards Flip than he was towards Larry or Rick." Check out Blakely's weblog, MLive.com: Everything Michigan.
We all love Ben, but how can you guys defend these comments, especially in light of his behavior during the Orlando game?
Well said. It's dead and we know that there is always some truth to any story. How much is anyones guess and we will prolly never know so it's time to look forward to our season as is.
Thanks for typing this Det, because now I don't have to.
You captured my sentiments exactly. I will miss Ben, and even more, I will miss a system that emphasized tough defense. :(
I suppose that it was the make up of the team the compromised the awesome power of the offensive playbook.
I don't think chauncey will bolt. He will relish this system.
I agree with Chauncey staying. However, if it looks like Flip may not return, CB may explore the market.
Flip has given CB more freedom than he has ever had in his career, he may not get that freedom with another coach.
good point DLEV. too bad we missed avery johnson.
Ben just confirmed every bad thought I've ever had about Flip. And McCoskey confirmed, for the fiftieth time, how much of a brown nosing hack he really is.
I don't know that McCoskey is a brown noser. I think he's just totally clueless. I mean he did write the infamous "Ivory Tower" article and that was hardly brown nosing, but it was definitely clueless.
What happens in negotiations, stays in negotiations.
Where was all the Flip hating last season when the Pistons were breaking franchise records for wins?
It seems like myself and a few others were the only ones concerned with the teams direction. I was complaining all year about lack of rebounding, paint scoring, and poor bench development. Most just kind of shrugged. It wasn't until our flaws showed up in the playoffs that the backlash started. Now with the Ben situation many of you fickle fans want Flips head on a platter.
I guess because my big basketball brain spotted the problems early, I'm not going to OVER-react like you cry babies.
Bottomline, Flip is a pretty darn good coach. Yes, he had his issues last season, but Carlisle and Brown had problems also. So quickly you forget. Micheal Curry ring a bell? What about Darvin Ham? Have you forgotten about scoring droughts, and getting swept? I hated both of them. Well, LB's first year wasn't so bad "after" the Sheed trade.
Anyways, I suggest you give Flip another chance. If he repeats the same mistakes I'll agree he needs to go.
Re: Flip hating?
that's pretty much 2/3 of the forum. The rest was "giving Flip a chance"
Re: Flip hating?
It was right here baby.
I said it from day one and now others are joining....
Before, I simply thought McCrapsky was full of excrement....
Big Ben won't bite lip about Flip - 10/07/06 - The Detroit News Online
Now, I really just dislike the guy. For God's sake Chris, you 're NOT going to lose your lockerroom pass. Just stop it already....
What, are you aiming for a shower pass next?
If the Pistons do not win 50+ games next season, Flip has to go. No more excuses about not fully utilizing the offensive plays in his playbook and no bench. A good coach will make the bench better.
Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the lockerroom today...
I'd really love to know where Tay, Dice and Rip are on this. Chauncey IMO is a wonderful player, esp. harnessed in a system, but tied to Flip. We know where Sheed stands. So there's the likely leaders of each faction. The other three guys are probably the ones Flip needs to get on his side if he's gonna last the season. Dice and Tay were part of the playoff rebellion, so perhaps they're leaning Sheed's way. Rip's a mystery.
Hopefully Flip continues to stupidly woo Sheed. Flip should know better than to try to win over a Dean Smith product with his garbage.
I chose to stand in the middle on this one. It's all a crap shoot.
Too many inconsistencies in the story. Ben liking Carlisle and Larry Brown, truly absurd.
The season need to hurry up and start before we get totally out of control on this Flip vs Ben stuff (It ain't even about that).
I would like to know one thing, maybe, just maybe somebody out there can oblige me.
Where Are All The Pistons Fan At?
Separate names with a comma.