Pistons @ Jazz... December 12th

Discussion in 'December 2005 Games' started by mercury, Oct 3, 2005.

  1. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Missing the bench scorer

    When the starters fall flat we have no one to go in to pick up the slack this year. Need somebody to help out Dice until he regains his shot:confused:

    Trades anyone ??
  2. Warthog

    Warthog Bench Warmer

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    mcdyess has been getting his shot back though, and he was 5/7 tonight. it's comin along.
  3. Caliban

    Caliban First Round Draft Pick

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    I think they were/are just passing, especially John Stockton.:nod:
  4. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    The only leader I see is Lindsey. How he's going to be physically when he returns...who knows? He had tenacious D, he was a good floor leader...and he was a little suspect as a scorer. But he's the only guy I see on the bench as having the heart to make the rest of the bench better...AND make the starters comfortable leaving the floor knowing that the game is in good hands.

    Of late...Arroyo's looking far more comfortable on the floor, Dice looks like he's getting his shot back, Delfino's been a pleasant surprise to me, Evans is on & off...but has the hustle. Yet none of them impresses me as a player the starters can fall back on.

    IMO...you're right...the bench needs a trade to be competitive late in the playoffs.

    I've said it a number of times before...Arroyo, Evans/Delfino & Darko for Mike James & Mo Pete.

    I'm a broken record :P Someone...please tell me to shutup! :brick:

    ...AND offer a better solution ;)
  5. kpaav

    kpaav Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    The starters do get big heads. Just look at the whining and techs they get every so often. It isnt a Kobe big head, but a we are ridiculously good (true) and deserve the benefit of the doubt on each call.
  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Flip learning the back to backs

    He has to figure a formula for the back to backs. If we are going to lose like this, obviously we need more bench. It could be that they just relaxed with the lead and the momemtum couldn't be recaptured. But still, Flip has to figure out a better formula for minutes and he will. Davis could have got us some rebounds: Delfino could have got us some points.
  7. DirtyMoney

    DirtyMoney First Round Draft Pick

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    We get beat by Stackhouse, Chucky and Memo.
  8. max

    max All-Star

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    Loss

    Pistons lost because they gave up 17 offensive rebounds and were outrebounded 55-27. Dyess had 2 rebounds off the bench to Collins 14. Ben 6, Sheed 8 to Kerilenko's 12 and Okurs 12.

    Pistons lack of rebounding is in the scouting report. Teams are bringing in these 3rd string PF/C type of guys who slide into the paint whenever a shot goes up for the offensive board. Its getting to the point now where other teams expect to own the boards. Even in winning you could see this as something to tweak and now it blew up in the Pistons face.

    If something is wrong with Ben Wallace then get him out of there and get it fixed. Dyess has not been getting it done on the glass either. Maybe try some other options like Davis or Jmax. Can Maxiel rebound? Get him in there if he can.
  9. LanierFan

    LanierFan Bench Warmer

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    I like Max's take on it. Tonight we didn't need a sixth man, we needed first through fifth men. Way too many second shots and long rebounds we didn't even get close to. Ben is a lot more easily neutralized these days than he used to be, and only part of that is his health. The other guys need to drop the "let Ben do it" attitude and take up the slack for him. We don't want the loose balls enough.

    Meanwhile, I guess we fans have to guard against greediness. Sweeping West Coast series and winning every game isn't something you can take for granted. When you're winning five out of every six, you have to live with the occasional lemon.
  10. max

    max All-Star

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    Lanierfan. True you will get the occasional Lemon. I would not mind if the shots were not falling or the team had a few misques. This rebounding thing is has been going on for the past 7 or 8 games. Whatever the Pistons were doing in the 1st 10 games or so on the glass they need to get back to. I hate seeing every 6'11" scrub from the opponents team thinking they own the glass against the Pistons. That has to stop.

    A lot of that is Ben Wallace. Obviously he has not aged enough in a month's time span to point to anything else than somekind of injury. Its too early in the season ( way too early ) to have a key guy out there playing injured. Great opportunity for some other guys to contribute. If not Darko then Maxiel or Davis. Davis is a pro and you know he will be ready and I would love to see what Maxiel has. Something tells me he would have had something to say about Collins, Okur and Kerilenko running over the Pistons last night.

    Great early season success so far. Have to love it. But if the team needs to take a step back and correct some things and get Ben Wallace healthy even if it means a temporary lull then so be it. Goal is still to be playing 100% come playoff time.
  11. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    the only reason we had that lead was because we made the jazz get turnovers in the first half. the pistons did bad rebounding in the first half too but since they created TO's they had a good lead. once they stopped creating turnovers the whole defenbse collapsed. bench did good should of had more pt.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The Pistons have been hiding a LOT of deficiencies by forcing turnovers. You see the wins, and the incredible offense and it can carry you away sometimes.

    But if you go back to the box score, or watch the ebb and flow of the game, these guys still have a LOT to work on before they could beat last year's squad.

    Physicality, rebounding, hustle (from the starters), consistency.

    If I find time this week, I'll dig into Minnesota's work under Flip to see if it is a systemic issue or just a lack of discipline.
  13. max

    max All-Star

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    Himat, Mwave. Current Pistons play is starting to remind me of the mid 90's Sonics. They got out rebounded a lot and caused a lot of TO's. Great records but never got very far in playoffs except for one year.
    With the exeption of whatever is wrong with Ben it looks like just plain not putting the effort into crashing the boards. Too easy to get by without it as long as the team is winning.

    I would be very interested in reading more on Flip in Minnesota and if this is his usual style.

    Its important to realize that the Pistons know how to succeeed in the post-season so if its done right the coach can learn from the players as well as the players learning from the coach.

    Pistons have the talent to fix the rebounding issue. Were rebouding great to start the season so just get back to that. Whatever they were doing back then go back to it. Put in the effort and try out other players like Maxiel.
  14. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    Rebounding problem

    I haven't watched the Pistons enough to know the answer: Is the rebounding problem caused because more and more of the starters are camping out by the perimeter and they simply can't get to their own missed shots? I guess that could only be part of the problem, the offensive rebounding problem.
  15. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    REBOUNDS!!! That's what i've been talking about for the past 5 games. Got outrebound by more than half??? That's not DETROIT BASKETBALL!!! Flip has a big problem. Maybe it is due to the zone defense he is trying to implement to the team. If it is and it did not work (for 5 straight games) and got embarassed last nite, just let the boys play DEFENSE they way they were playing for the past few years, for heaven sake.

    As for Big Ben, if he is really bothered by his knee and ankle, maybe he need some rest. And rest, I mean, take a few games off. Dale Davis can start in his place, Dyess coming off the bench as usual, and Darko to get his minutes and show us what he can do. If he still fail to perform, TRADE HIM!!!

    This is the time where Flip should play the bench more and rest the starters if they are really injured. We do not want Ben to have a long term injury.
  16. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    If Ben is hurt now . .

    . . . it might be a GOOD time to start Darko, telling him he has a few games to start, and see if it gets his motor running. Bring Dyce and JMax off the bench, and we will see who the main part of the PT should go to for the balance of the season, between DMC and JMax. See which one gets the job done better now and we can then concentrate on getting one of the two ready for the playoffs. We know Dale will be professional about it and be ready, but even when he is in there, he does not light anything up.

    Our bigs that have the potential of lighting it up, besides Dyce, are between DMC and JMax, so we should find out which one SOON.

    And it would give Ben time to heal for the rest of the season.
  17. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    @Max - Good call on the Sonics. That was a team that used gimmick defenses.

    @jzchen - I don't think it is the zone. I'm working on some numbers now and through tomorrow. The problems may not be defensive rebounding...

    @lazy - you are kidding right? The problems are rebounding, hustle and energy plays. Starting DMC over Dice and Davis is not an option. I would start Davis with Sheed due to their past familiarity playing with one another, and promote Darko back to 4th big if Ben had to miss any time.

    The last thing Darko needs is to be thrown into the water to see if he can swim. There is some very tough competition coming up...
  18. lazyberbs

    lazyberbs First Round Draft Pick

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    Nope, I was not kidding in the least. Given 20-25 minutes, DMC would out rebound, out score, out block Dale in any given game.

    And we "know" Dale will be ready but we need to get a decision between DMC and JMax by all-star break so we know who to concentrate on for the late season. Dale does not have enough of an impact on a game to depend on him for more than fill minutes.

    If DMC knows that he is getting a chance to play, REALLY getting a chance to play, and has to fight off JMax to get the minutes, he should be ready. And if he is not, we should know it.

    What would happen if this injury or whatever it is with Ben, does not straighten itself out by later in the season. We had better have someone else ready other than Dale Davis.
  19. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    darko has done well in a starting role before. it's not like it's the nba finals or the knicks. i don't see why darko wouldn't do well. i agree lazy that darko and jmax are unknowns we need to get them on the floor and see what we have. no more 3 minute auditions when the game has been decided. ben's hurt he needs a few games and we will be going on a home stand. it's a great time to work in the youngsters.
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You mean like when they say "any given Sunday" in football right? Like, "anything could happen"....

    Right now, DMC can't outdo anyone except at blocks perhaps. He's not bringing 100% consistently. And like it or not, that is how it works. The player brings consistency, and then the minutes get consistent. Not the other way around.

    When he gets in an NBA regular season game, that is a REAL chance to play. It's a chance that thousands of us would kill for, even if we were abused by our opponent and completely humiliated.

    If he hasn't clued in that he needs to fight off everyone for minutes by year 3, and that every moment on the court counts statistically, with the fans, his own self-esteem, justifying his paycheck, his value for future negotiations, Serbian pride, you name it, then this guy is a colassal bust.

    What I am saying is, please eliminate the naivety. Darko is either overmatched, lazy or dumb. I'm sure you will prefer overmatched. I'm leaning towards lazy although a strong case could be made for dumb.

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