Pistons Bench

Discussion in 'Pistons and NBA' started by buddahfan, Sep 3, 2005.

  1. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    In Carlisle's last year as a Piston coach the Pistons had a pretty good bench. Brown inherited that bench it helped him get his first and probably only ring in 2003-04. He then dismantled the bench and basically went with 7 guys last year. (Only 7 guys played more than 50 games and averaged more than 10 minutes a game).

    I think that with the addition of Davis and Evans as well as Mixiell, whose game I really like, the Pistons have added 3 solid off the bench guys this year. I would expect Hunter's minutes to be cut down.

    I see the first five off the bench as as Milicic, Maxiell, Davis up front and Arroyo and Evans in the backcourt. I am not exactly sure where Hunter and Delfino will fit in. Delfino could start the year ahead of Maxiell and wind up battling Evans for the #4 spot off the bench. Hunter could be the 12th man on the bench or fall to the taxi squad behind Acker.

    In any case after a one year hiatis I think that the Pistons may have their bench back, which should bode well for a good year.
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not sure that LB dismantled his bench. Mike James couldn't be retained. Corliss was traded "for salary cap flexibility" and Memo got a massive offer sheet, significantly larger than his qualifying offer.

    I've read a lot of misinformation about Memo leaving. Joe had to choose between Memo and Rasheed Wallace. It was an either or scenario. Once Memo signed that offer sheet, the Pistons could not get him for the MLE which was eventually (and very wisely) given to Antonio McDyess.

    I agree that the bench this year has a lot less marginal players on it than in years past. Davis is a possible every game replacement, something that EC might not have been able to do. Evans is an up and comer with a much nicer resume than Smush Parker or Horace Jenkins.

    It's all up to Flip. He has a history for making radical rotation changes. I think there will be much more integration and less platooning.
  3. buddahfan

    buddahfan Retired from Forum

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    Oops, I Forgot About McDyess

    Lets make it Milicic McDyess and Maxiell up front and Evans and Arroyo in the backcourt. That would leave Davis as the 11th guy and either Hunter, Delfino or Acker as the 12th guy. It is also possible that Davis could start the year ahead of Milicic and Delfino could start the year ahead of Maxiell.

    In any case I think that there will be some serious bench competition and a good second unit for the Pistons this year.

    The possibilites are almost endless except for McDyess, who I still can't believe I forgot in my original post. Maybe the reason I left him off originally is because I consider him more of a 6th starter than a bench player.
  4. G-man

    G-man Starter

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    Where'd McDyess Go?

    Buddha buddy, welcome aboard.

    Oops! :doh: Ya lost our number one producer off the pine in your relief crew, McDyess.
  5. TBird

    TBird First Round Draft Pick

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    The bench

    The jury's really still out on it, I think. McDyess is fantastic, and Davis I expect to be solid, but beyond that we really have a lot of unknowns. Evans I think is a nice pickup, but we are going to need one or more of the young guys (Arroyo/Darko/Delfino) to make a contribution if we are going to improve significantly in that respect.

    I would be very surprised if any one of our rookies gets a lot of floor time this year (even though I'm high on the potential of all three). Maxiell I think is the most ready to contribute immediately, but he's so far down the depth chart at this point that something (injury or a Darko debacle) would need to occur for him to play much.
  6. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    my thoughts

    Corliss just never did it for me. It just seemed like he would always lose the ball in traffic, had a hard time finishing easy layups in close and had a Mahorn type waddle to him. The guy just looked "bottom heavy" and slow. Plus, he had man boobs.

    I liked the energy that Mike James and Jon Barry brought to the table. I think we're still missing that kind of energy off the bench. Maybe Arroyo will bring it this year.

    I'd love to see CD really step it up this year too. We really need an aggressive, take it to the rim, Ginobili/Wade type player.

    This is a make or break season for Darko. From both the Piston's point of view and for his own battered confidence.

    I like to see Hunter turn it on come playoff time, until then (assuming he doesn't retire) he should get as much rest as possible so he'll be fresh and to give some PT to the "kids".

    Dice just needs to bring it like he did last year. With a full year of confidence in his knees now under his belt, I'm expecting great things from him.

    I don't think AJ, Maxiel & Acker will see much time initially, but I hope at least one of them can really step it up this season. AJ might be NBDL material.
  7. dozero

    dozero First Round Draft Pick

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    Careful What You Wish For...

    I think we're gonna see A LOT of player development this year and as a result, will suffer some close game loses. We've proved that we don't need the BEST record to go to the big show, so we can work some of the younger guys into the rotation. The good is that the starters get to rest, but the bad is seeing the bench go through some growing pains. I think Amir is the odd man and we'll have 15 on the team to start. Dupree may be around as incintive for Delfino at the 3 spot. If Delfino can't cut it, look for him to be traded or banded to the bench. We will see Max but I think the surprise will be Acker. If he catches on then we can field a REALLY big line up. That gives us Hunter, Delfino and Dupree as trade bait for a more productive 3. Maybe.
  8. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I disagree with this. I have nothing against the young kids, but we would have won the title last year with homecourt. Rasheed screwup, Brown rumours, short bench and all. Homecourt is so important, particularly when we blow teams out at home and rest the starters but on the road the game always comes down to the last 5 minutes.

    Homecourt needs to be the mission this year. Not winning the division means the 4th seed and probably 3 series on the road. The odds would not be in our favour.

    I did a quick scan back when I was at the Detnews. The average win total of an NBA champ in the last 20 years is 60 games. Think about that. Only 1 team has won a title in modern history with less than 54 wins. And only 2 teams with less than 58. This is from memory but I know it's damn close.
  9. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    I have to agree with the homecourt being priority it took way too much out of our 7 man rotation winning those games on the road.

    As far as Flip goes he will give these guys besides the starting 6 some time to develop some confidence.A clean slate with the coach and the way the core group of players on this team are I see them giving up minutes to have the bench we need come playoff time.Except for runaround Rip they know they need rest and foul trouble will dictate the starters sitting out.

    As competitive as they may be they are just as unselfish.I see Ham and Dupree gone Amir in development if that happens but the potential for these other guys to come on I think come playoff time we will be more than happy with the bench holding it's own.
  10. mercury

    mercury Bench Warmer

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    I haven't been able to get close to the concept that Delfino should get the nod over Dupree... Never saw Dupree as this lousy shooter folks are talking about... he actually hit a fair amount of his perimiter shots... I saw a guy that quickly took it to the rack ... and finished unlike Delfino. I saw a guy that could actually cover his man and was an agressive rebounder... a guy who excelled in the transition game.
    No complaining when he was designated to the bench so that Delfino could get his PT... when he finally came off the bench there wasn't any signs of this unfair rustyness that infiltrates our boards... just a guy willing to strap em up and go hard every minute... in otherwords he deserved a real shot to prove himself.
    Maybe he doesn't have the handles that Delfino has... but our team is already strong in that department... we don't need all 5 guys dribbling around.
    In my book Dupree s/b considered before C.D.

    I do agree with Joe's thoughts on going to camp with 16 able bodies... we can not predict what might happen as far as injuries/trades etc.
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Mercury, I thought Dupree should get more playing time last year. My best bet for a bench was then Arroyo, Delfino (only at the end of the year when we had picked up Arroyo and Delfino was halfway toward healthy at least) Dupree, Dyess, Darko. I thought this squad could really do some damage on fast breaks. I do not see Delfino competing with Dupree at small forward so much as Mo Evans and Delfino competing for shooting guard minutes. Thats because mostly I believe it will turn out to be Jason Maxiell or Amir Johnson who ends up playing our backup small forward minutes.

    As I have stated many times over at the old digs, its not that we really need either Mo Evans or Dale Davis for the regular season. What we really need them for is depth in the playoffs, and in Mo's case, a defender to put on Wade. For the regular season, we may see neither of these players play much. The competition is going to be pretty fierce.

    Another possible bench player at the end of the season is Rip. This may sound silly, but I believe Rip is not the best shooting guard we have. I believe Tay is. Now, this could only happen if somebody else moved into the starting lineup for us. Amir Johnson could. So could Maxiell. If this did happen, we certainly would not be crying anymore about points off the bench with Dyess and Rip providing plenty of scoring.

    I'll finish this post with a depth chart for the Pistons that could exist for the playoffs:

    CB, Arroyo, Acker (with Acker as our defensive specialist replacing Hunter)

    Tay, Rip, Delfino, Mo Evans (with Mo Evans being there for defense vs. Wade specifically.)

    Amir Johnson, Jason Maxiell

    Ben, Dyess

    Sheed, Darko, Dale Davis.

    This is a 14 man roster. If Amir Johnson and Jason Maxiell emege as vital parts of our team, and we can only have 12 players on the playoff roster, then you face some real hard choices. Both Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson can also play power forward, so you could possibly go into the playoffs without Dale Davis. (Especially if Darko is that good). Delfino could well be the other guy that does not make the squad. Or Arroyo if Acker shows he can replace much of what Arroy brings.

    The last two players I would want to see left off are Mo Evans and Alex Acker. Defense is vital.
  12. BigDaddy

    BigDaddy First Round Draft Pick

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    Lee don't know about the players or the rotation but we all have to be geeked with the potential of our reserves.If just 3 of them pan out we are an improved bench that will help bigtime in the playoffs.Flip and JoeD have to see this and will make it priority.

    I just think with the draft and pickups like it or not Dupree will be odd man out.Totally agree with both of you that he should have been in more last year and we might not be having this discussion now.As good of a coach LB was/is his trust in playing past the 7 man rotation for whatever reason I believe hurt everyone sitting on that bench waiting to get in other than the last 3 minutes of a blowout.
  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    Big Daddy, it was worse than just going down to 7 players. In the SA series, there was no Wade for Hunter to check, and Hunter had one good offensive game (in a blowout where we did not need his offense) and 6 very bad ones. Game 7 he was pretty darn bad on offense and not even a factor on defense. So in that game 7, we really only had 6 players who were actually contributing toward keeping us in the game. I have nothing at all against Hunter being a defensive sub, but we simply did not need him in that game 7. At least nowhere near the extent he played. Dupree had played enough during the season that he could have been brought in for that series, giving us some size, rebounding, and maybe some fast break dunks that we could really have used. Not to mention he was probably the better defensive matchup against Ginobili.
  14. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    homecourt advantage

    Contrary to popular belief you can develop your bench and still obtain homecourt advantage. Last year we didn't have home court advantage but we played our regular rotation there was no bench development. It was often the starters who did not get it done. We also lost a lot of games because of burned out starters. Last year we also won a pretty large amount of comeback games. It's proven that we can win games even if we are down at halftime. Flip will not just leave the bench in even if they lose the lead and have us go down by 10. If the bench isn't working flip will put the starters back in. Some games the bench will come through some it won't but they at least need to be given the oppurtunity.

    Playing your bench does not automatically make you lose. the bench will be developed during the 2nd and 3rd. The starters will seal the deal in the 4th.
  15. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    bball jay

    We lost a lot of games (8 or 9) because the boys didn't play all the well for Gar Heard. They win five of those, the Pistons get homecourt in the ECF and probably dispatch the Heat early. With LB gone, it won't be a problem. You should be thrilled. :)
  16. bball jay

    bball jay Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    yes. i forgot about those games we lost because of our coach not only not preparing his bench but also didn't have a prepared coaching staff. he always used that excuse that darko wasn't ready well his coaching staff wasn't ready either. lb didn't develop his bench or coaching staff. i'm very glad that lb is gone.

    we also lost some games to subpar teams that we just didn't get up for. those are perfect games to put the bench in. starters heads aren't into the game sit them down. lb would just ride them until we were down 15 then have to climb out of a huge hole after half time. i don't see us having a problem getting home court advantage in the ecf this year. we will win the season series with indiana.
  17. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    hi

    bballjay, you got that right. And although this is not the right thread technically, that interview of Billups supports your point. Billups said in that interview that playing Darko would not have lost us games.

    To add to that, I will say right now, playing Jason Maxiell will not lose us games. Playing Alex Acker will not lose us game. Same for Arroyo and Delfino. And finally, what if we play Amir Johnson. A 6-10, 220 pound player with excellent speed, who can jump out the gym, who has quite a bit of basketball savvy already at an early age, who is known above all for his shotblocking, who can flat out shoot the ball right straight in from anywhere in close, and seems to have pogo sticks for legs when it comes to rebounding, he will not lose us games by him playing.

    Now, if we played them all together for extensive enough periods, I suppose their combined inexperience might lead to us losing games. But we do not have to play them all at once. An NBA season has just under 22,000 player minutes in it. With a little imagination and planning, anyone who wants to balance player development with winning games can do so.
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Homecourt is job #1. If we had beat Chicago twice last year, we would have been able to rest starter's earlier and allow the bench to get even more SUBSTANTIAL run late.

    I'm looking for a 58+ win season. Call it a hunch, but I have a bad feeling about this starting 5 staying together if we come up short of the Finals this coming season. And no one car argue that once you break up the core, we start to fall back to the pack.

    The bench isn't just the kids although I see this thread headed in that direction. Evans, Dice, Arroyo and D Square will all have a major impact upon how games go. That there is a 9 man rotation which is typical for most teams during the season.
  19. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    By George, I think he's getting the hang of it! :nod:
  20. ggazoo69

    ggazoo69 Team Captain Forum Donor

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    detteam

    Love your signature, bud. I saw Carlin in Vegas, and he was great. I have two of his books in my bathroom. Excellent toilet reading. The guy has an unbelievable comedic mind.

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