Home Phoenix Suns Saturday, January 11, 2014

Discussion in 'January 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Singler can not defend a guard on the perimeter, except to go out and bother a shot with his height. But if asked to guard a guard on the perimeter, Singler gets beat off the dribble. Way to slow to play guard.

    As a small forward, I think they overlist his height a bit, plus, he is really slight of build, and simply has no ability to contend with a small forward who chooses to drive in on him. Which is why we put poor Stuckey on Jefferson in the Utah game.

    People who note that Singler moves a lot, are failing to notice the other team generally does not guard him much. As slow as he is, and as incapable to score when guarded at all, they figure they can worry about him later. Yes, he does know to exploit this lack of defensive attention. In short stints, he could be useful. Indeed, in the Phoenix game, Singler was plus 14 toward the end of the first half. Ended up minus 3. Phoenix at halftime adjusted to him being in the game, and started burning us the whole second half for having Singler in the game. Lucky to have pulled out a win in that one.
  2. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    7th all time in rebounds at duke and 4th in scoring. Took down national championship as mvp of the final four. We're not dealing with a light weight here.

    Started his freshmen year as a power forward.

    6'7.5" without shoes. 6'11" wingspan. Taller than ben wallace.
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  3. J-Train

    J-Train Team Captain Forum Donor

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    I have been three feet from Kyle Singler. I have seen him next to NBA small forwards. He is NOT slight of build. This kid is a big, tough SF.

    I agree, he really shouldn't be defending opposing guards. He should be defending small forwards. Kyle Singler is legit.

    As an edit, and in fairness, I agree that ideally he shouldn't be used more than 20 minutes or so. Having said that, this team can't win games without Singler playing 20+ minutes.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
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  4. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Singler isn't our best perimeter defender. But he certainly isn't the worst either. Lee/TaS, I think he is somewhere in between what both of you are saying. Physically and with the eye test, he isn't up to par with the best guys in the league, but his stats are saying that he is very good. I personally don't have a problem with him in the long term being the first SF off the bench. He can shoot 3's, has good fundamentals and seems to mesh well as well as being one of the top hustle guys on our team.
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's not our best by the eyeball test, but he is our best by the measurement of balls not going through the basket... at least to this point in the season.

    His man is just ICE cold this year (about the same shooting percentage from the perimeter as josh smith). That's as cold as it gets.
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  6. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    The stats say he is a better defender than Paul George and Lebron James. Do you agree with that statement?
  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    No, but maybe from the perimeter. Those guys are great because of their strength and ability to guard multiple positions. Also, I'm guessing they help more effectively and purposely sag off and leave their man more because of that ability. Singler's best quality on d is that he rarely lets his man have wide open looks. Just a really solid bench player or a 2nd tier starter at his position. That beats the nba's worst sf starter that we have starting our games (statistically).

    There are probably 20-25 nba sf's that I'd swap for singler.
  8. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Lets be honest, I can think of a lot of guys that I would rather be defending KD down the stretch. I agree that Singler is fundamentally sound. He closes well, does his best to stay in front of his man.

    I also agree that he should be starting at SF instead of Smith. In fact, I think that will translate into wins.
  9. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

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    Singler is good. There.
  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    There are about 25 NBA small forwards who I would swap for Singler, who are not even getting time with their current teams.
  11. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    JJ hustles. JJ can hit 3's. JJ is a whole lot bigger than Singler, and actually capable of competing with front line players. Just giving Singler's minutes to JJ would result in a lot more wins for us so far this season.
  12. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Ok I know you are just pulling my leg now. JJ is really not that great. Singler is far sounder on defense and is happy to live his life on off-ball cuts through the paint. Plus JJ has the added benefit of being slower than the waiting line at your local Motor registry.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Panda, you may have joined this forum after the information about the wall/leg tests. JJ had the record for highest heel on arnie's wall.
  14. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    JJ used to be a very good player until Tay taught him how to pump fake.
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I wouldn't assume that he can't play. He's really not getting any opportunity this year and the chances that he has had, he's performed well. It's been in GT action for the most part, but a player can only perform in the situations that the coach puts him in.

    I'm not calling for him to get more burn, but it just seems unfair to criticize a guy who has done OK in limited minutes. I said the same thing about CV and he went on to prove that he still sucks when he got more chances, so there's also that.
  16. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Its not true that Singler is a better inside defender. Remember, you can have all the skill in the world, and do everything perfectly, and still not be able to defend an NBA power forward, or an NBA small forward. JJ has a much better shot of guarding an NBA power forward vs. Singler, though neither is adequate, while JJ is quite capable of defending an NBA small forward at the basket. And Singler just can't. Regardless of how they list the players height and weight, JJ is considerably bigger and stronger than Singler. As far as perimeter D, Singler is marginally better than JJ, but neither is adequate at it. Both have some height to bother a shot, but neither can stay in front of nor follow a guard who decides to drive by them.

    Now, would I suggest having either of these players on the team. Nope. Lots better choices out there. But considering who the coach can call on to play small forward minutes, he is calling on the wrong choice when it comes to Singler or JJ. Very minor point, again, as neither should even be on the team so that choice should not even be there.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Singler has the 8th highest average speed in the entire NBA, and he spends a lot of time standing in the corner, which really tows down his average.

    Compared to Sammy Mejia:
    KS: 11.22 lane agility, 3.21 3/4 court sprint, 11 bench presses
    SM: 11.87 lane agility, 3.49 3/4 court sprint, 7 bench presses

    Obviously, Kyle is a superior athlete with speed to and agility to spare and more tools than necessary to play lock down defense. He's taller, heavier, stronger, has a higher reach, is faster, and more agile than Mejia.

    In terms of rim protection, the best 2 ways that I can think of to look at it are synergy's approach (where they look at the FG% of his man) and the NBA rim protection approach, (where they look at the FG% of the other team when each player is in the vicinity). The first is more of a direct approach and the 2nd shows more of the value of help D.


    Other team's FG% at the rim when each player is within 5 feet of the basket:
    Harrellson: .468
    Smith: .472
    Drum: .481
    Singler: .496
    Monroe: .509
    Stuckey: .516
    Bynum: .533
    Jennings: .594
    Billups: .611
    KC Pope: .667

    Leaving off guys like Siva (.750), CV, Gigi, Mitchell, and Jerebko due to low samples.

    Direct FG% of opponents on post ups:
    Harrellson: .286 (6-21)
    Monroe: .301 (25-83)
    Singler: .370 (10-27)
    Drum: .400 (42-105)
    Smith: .429 (21-49)

    If teams think that Singler is undersized at SF, they sure aren't showing it by attacking him in the post. As is the case on the perimeter, the attempts against him are low and inefficient. It's almost as if they just give up and avoid him.
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  18. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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  19. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    35. Singler and Jennings. Singler was suppose to help here.

    36. All Singler.

    37. Bad team D.
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    They probably look at it and think "this is too easy, too good to be true. Something sinister going on here" and pass up the opportunity. Cheeks playing mind games with the other team.
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