Home Phoenix Suns Saturday, January 11, 2014

Discussion in 'January 2014' started by roscoe36, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    vs Phoenix Suns

    Saturday, January 11, 2014 - 7:30 PM Eastern


    Palace of Auburn Hills, Detroit, MI

    LOCAL TV: FS Detroit
    NATIONAL TV:

    RADIO: 97.1 FM The Ticket

    GO PISTONS!
     
  2. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Last game until next weekend.
     
  3. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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    Hopefully RoboStuckey shows up and we look good.

    Pistons 99 - Phoenix 98
     
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I wonder if Singler will get to play?
     
  5. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Guess what folks, the Pistons win two in a row on a back-to-back and give the Palace faithful their first win in the hood in a month..... Yep it was Friday the 13th way back last year in December, when they beat the Nets and now with this win they move back ahead of the Nets into the 8th spot.

    Let's give Mo his due and vote him coach of the weekend going with an unconventional lineup to close out both games. Once again Teen Wolf played the entire 4th quarter scoring most of his 16 pts in the quarter on 1!!!!! assist. I emphasize that because Brandon Jennings had 11 assists in the first qtr, 5 in the second, 2 in the third and 0 in the 4th as the Pistons scoring went through Bynum. In fact Bynum's only assist was the pass to Smith to hit what looked like would be the winning three with 7 seconds left.......but Josh had a brain fart and fouled Gerald Green outside the arc and he calmly hit three FT despite a woman behind the hoop opening her blouse.

    Josh makes up for the goof, by driving to the hoop for the winning bucket, as most us remember the air ball just a few days ago vs the Knicks

    The Pistons tried to maintain their 13 pt halftime lead throughout the third swapping hoops the first 8 minutes, but as soon as Mo went small, they chipped away either from the three point arc or posting up Bynum and Singler and winning the battle of the boards.

    For Brandon to have 16 assists at the half, you would think that he would have finished with 25, but somehow or another the game plan changed in the second half and we were lucky to hold on to win. The Suns almost beat us with the three ball, out down-towning us 13-3.

    Pistons made 70% from the FT line. (19/27). Three more misses and we'd be looking another loss.

    Are there any other teams that start with Ph? Philadelphia, Phoenix, we got their number.... OK I'm rambling here.....time for a movie date with the wife....later Pistons fans!!!
     
  6. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Going to small ball was an ok theory (to tempt pho into one on one post up bball), but it didn't work. We got lucky to escape this one. Desperation by cheeks imo.

    Instead on draining threes, they just got and ones... and then some offensive boards and conventional threes out of the chaos. And on offense, it was more one on one ball from us, so no advantage in having mismatches with speed.

    Josh hit 2 shots that he normally misses. It those don't go, cheeks is looking really silly, since we dominated the whole rest of the game with our patented big ball.

    Regardless, it was fun to see us prevail in a close game.

    Frye's stroke is effortless. Scary when he got open.
     
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  7. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    The 4th quarter tonight for us was dreadful again. It was our low point, low assist, low rebound, low block, low steal, high turnover, and high personal foul quarter for the night.

    Q: Ast/ Reb/ FGA
    1: 16/ 16/ 28
    2: 8/ 15/ 27
    3: 5/ 17/ 21
    4: 3/ 11/ 18

    In the 4th, we went with a semi traditional lineup for about 4:25 and we were +2 (except that we had Pope at SF, which isn't ludicrous). Even with that lineup though, we were very small as it was basically Bynum/Jennings/Pope/Smith/Monroe.

    The rest of the 4th featured our first extended taste of miniature basketball this year. It was -10 in about 7:35 (on pace to lose by about 64 points over a 48 minute stretch).


    First game of the year that I can remember where Josh Smith had such great shot selection. He only attempted one three pointer and it was absolutely the right shot to take in that situation (Bynum fumbling with 1 second left on the shot clock). So, 11-16 from the floor and 25 points. He even got fouled on his game winner and it wasn't called. He was second on the team in assists, despite the 71 minutes of court time by guards other than Jennings.

    2 really strong games in a row from Josh.

    Hit 3. Foul 3-point shooter. Hit game winner. Pretty unique way for one guy to finish off a bball game.
     
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  8. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Hands up who still wants to trade Josh Smith when you know what he can do.

    I don't care if it's Phoenix. If he shows half the BB IQ he showed today (great shot selection, good extra passes, hustle) every game, he will be a 20/10 guy.
     
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Personally, I love that was went long on bigs and that 2 of them are stronger defensively than offensively. I just imagined that it would allow us to always have 2 of them on the court and hardly ever have all of them out there. The thought of having 3 near all-star players filling the PF/C positions without the need for any bench help is intriguing... if that is how it would actually play out.

    And it's pretty amazing how interchangeable they are. I have very little preference for any of the 3 combos that we can pull from them.

    We have the potential for a great defensive team. If you added Paul George like defensive SF to the mix (I know, that's a big ask), we would be nasty. Jennings would probably thrive defensively if he were allowed to gamble for steals with that wall behind him. Just think of how we were so good defensively in '03-'05 with CB and Rip.
     
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  10. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Lets talk about our bench for a moment. By the end of the game, all our bench players were negative. Pretty typical of late. Bynum hit some shots in this one, but he was the most negative player for us tonight, minus 11. Why, because he plays no D and really, really, is not a point guard. Singler was just minus a little. He started out well plus, but coach overplayed him, and Phoenix went after Singler continuosly by the end of the game. Lots of real easy scores by Phoenix right thru and over Singler. Singler hardly made up with offense in this one. His six turns all hurt us, everyone of them. Stuckey had some good moments. CV got to play, to our detriment.

    I like to mention what would have worked. Everytime we go with Jorts as the direct sub for Drummond, we win. Even the best teams in the league lose to us if we use the right sub. Also, since Stuckey was available, he could have played the backup point guard minutes. Bynum never needed to see any action at all, and Singler, as I am sure anybody who has ever read a post from me knows, is not a person I would have on the team.

    And of course, CV should have been let go years ago.

    Also, if you need an emergency sub, Siva should be available. And Mitchell should be seeing serious time on this team to add to our rebounding, and overall energy level, when the subs rotate in.

    Another thing. Billups barely played the night before. Hardly any reason to hold with this no back to back games for him. I am glad he did not play, it would have just been worse with him as the coach would not replace Bynum with him, but rather waste his efforts by playing him along side Bynum.

    OK, the good. Another game where our starting front line all had double doubles, and none of them the barely double double kind. These were serious double doubles. Two 20 -10 games, and Drums with 13 / 13. Jennings tied a Piston record with 16 first half assists. And I am sure it must be a serious record breaker indeed when just comparing halves where there were no turns. Yes, Jennings was 16 / 0 on assist to turn ratio after one half. Amazing. Our fifth starter, Pope, as usual played great D and provided a bit of scoring too.

    We outdid them in paint points 68 - 40, and outrebounded them 59 -45. But it should have been a lot more lopsided than that, as all that small to miniature ball we played let them have way too many points in the paint and offensive rebounds to get a lot of those points in the paint. At times, it was downright sickening to watch.

    I am no fan of not playing defense, which coach was choosing to do way too much. Smith's heroics at the end (lets forget the stupid foul of a guy shooting a triple) were very entertaining indeed, but I would have rather have seen us win handily and not need those heroics.

    Kudos to Bynum, who was put in a terrible position, being on that unit, but ignored it all and just kept nailing shots. Pretty much all his buckets were clutch, needed extremely.

    Drummond had his 2nd huge block game. Smith and Monroe combined for 9 assists.
     
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  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    We had 50 points in the paint in the first have (!!!) and only 18 in the 2nd half. I would imagine that the 50 pip has to be the single half record for the NBA this season. That was ridiculous.

    Also, Jennings had 16 assists without a turnover at one point in time. If he would have quit there, it would have been the most assists without a turnover in an NBA game behind Rondo's 17-0 and Steve Nash's 18-0 (and Jennings did it in one half while sitting on the bench for 3:47 of it). The most assists in a single half was Bob Cousy with 19. Jennings was close.

    Most of them weren't of the creation variety though. It seems like that 1st quarter was due heavily to turnovers, blocks, and the resulting fast breaks. However, that is when it seems like we are at our best. Pope showed an extra gear twice tonight on full court sprints. Running the court is easy for Singler, Smith, and Drummond.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2014
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  12. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Every game is a what if? .... and you have to wonder what if the coach had chose to go back to his starters and the subs that broke out with 30 points in the first quarter........at about the about 8 mins mark left in the game and the Suns tightening it up? I mean would they have folded much so than the miniball squad and gave up the lead. or would they have won this one going away with Jennings challenging Scott Skiles 30 assist record game?

    I was shocked for the second game in a row that he let Bynum play the whole 4th.....that means that Singler and Bynum have some pictures of Mo that they are holding over his head.

    Jennings never had the ball long enough in the 4th to get another assist with Bynum dribbling and shooting on something like 8 possessions in a row.
     
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  13. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    We only outscored the Suns in the first quarter. So all the bench players were going to be negative +/-. That's a really bad use of the stat
     
  14. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

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    Won the 1st quarter out of the 4 quarters and we won the game eventually. Wonder how many times this happen this season. The game would not be that close if Mo use better defensive/ offensive rotation after the 7-0 run towards the end that got us the 7 pt lead, especially timeouts were being called by both sides. We had the Jennings/ Bynum/ Pope/ Singler/ Smith lineup towards the end which I think we should have use either Stuckey or even JJ instead of letting Frye post up Jennings/ Bynum/ Pope. Anyway, I'll take this 'W' anytime.

    I feel that our starting 5 is not all that bad. Jennings would not have 11 assists in the 1st quarter without this lineup and normally Jennings do get 75% of his assist in the 1st quarter. Why do we always play good in the 1st 24 minutes? I think here are some of the reasons: -

    1. Players conditioning. I feel that our players conditioning is not up to par especially Drummond & Monroe. They rotate faster and close out on shooters better after picks in the 1st half. But in the 2nd half when opposition spread out more, they are slower to react and thus our defensive setback in the 2nd half. Even Dre has more block shots in the 1st half than in the 2nd when he is not in foul trouble. They have a stat shown today where Plumlee is third in games with more than 2 blocks, I was wondering why Dre does not belong in top 10 where he should.

    2. Sub patterns. Mo gotta sub Dre first instead of Moose. This is because if you are gonna play Bynum and CV when you start subbing, Dre gotta play with them. Time and time again, going back to last season, the Bynum/ Dre/ CV combination works most of the time. Bynum/ CV/ Moose combination will never work. A lot of time, when Bynum is in there, Dre is on the bench.

    3. Players padding up on stats. Most of the time, this is where Jennings trying to pad up his pts per game and starts jacking up shots. Evidently in this game he did exactly towards the end of the 1st quarter when he jack up a 3 when there is 20 secs left on the shot clock and 24 seconds left in the 1st quarter. This is prior to the shot he jacked up with Dre putting it back in just before the end of the 1st quarter. You are the PG of the team and you should know clock management. Jennings seemed to jack up more shots in the 2nd half especially if we were leading at the half. Seems like he just wanna pad up his stats.

    4. Emotions. Jennings, as the PG of the team should not be playing angry. He should be the calm guy on this team, direct the rest of the team when there is pressure. Instead of Jennings playing with anger, I would much more happier if there rest of the team play with anger, especially Moose & Dre. Both of them are just too cool.

    All in all, I still feel there isn't any need to change the starting lineup as they are competitive each and every game in the 1st quarter. It's the subs rotation and who finishes the game which is more important at the moment.
     
  15. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

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    Our current starting unit have the the worst accumulated plus/minus of all units we have played. Sure, it's mainly because of them being the unit that have played the most minutes but it's not like they are winning. It takes more than a good start or two to make that trainwreck of a lineup look good.
     
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  16. Nemo

    Nemo Fantasy-Football Snub Forum Donor

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  17. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    Was Cheecks trying to throw this game? I like doing a total about face and going away from everything that got me the lead to close the game. That's savvy.

    The 1st half was like batting practice for Jennings, there were a lot of home runs to be hit. The issue isn't stats for him, it's the style of play.

    Taking the long view outside the 2 game win streak: I think it was the 3rd Q when Jennings drew criticism from the Suns announcers for taking a quick 18-20' from the elbow that he missed. I didn't really have a problem with the shot, I think we just have to live with it from him.

    After missing he then gambles badly going for a steal against Dragic that took him out of the play and left Monroe on him. Dragic iso'd and hit a 3. I feel like the Pistons would have been better off if Jennings could have just stayed in front of Dragic and made him hit a shot or make a play to someone else.

    These guys are never going to be a good defensive team, but if they could play the %'s more and win the battle of attrition they'd be better served. Instead of making one bad play they make multiple bad plays in an effort to offset the first one.
     
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  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    There was one play last night where he absolutely flew getting back on D. I like him a lot, he adds a dimension that the Pistons don't have otherwise.
     
  19. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It looks like Cheecks has woken up and gotten a taller guard on the roster after watching Bynum futilely trying to guard Channing Frye!
     
  20. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

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    As a teacher, we're taught to deliver information as a turd sandwich - good, then bad, then good.

    The Pistons won tonight with two big clutch plays from Smith. They don't get a lot of wins against western conference teams, and haven't exactly lit it up for the home crowd, so that was really great to see. 50 points in the paint, Jennings with 16 assists in the first half, very exciting stuff.

    Of course, the Pistons managed a decent win against a terrible team on Friday, then hung on for a win against a team that has been playing above their heads all season. It was an interesting contrast tonight - one team that has been performing vastly above their talent level barely losing to another team that has been performing vastly below it. Detroit should match up well with Phoenix, but thankfully Cheeks - in his benevolence - deconstructed that size advantage and went small ball in the fourth. Detroit still cannot play perimeter defense, and the Suns were heavily exploiting it, chucking up one uncontested three after another. Had they hit a single extra of those uncontested threes, this would have been a loss, we would all be complaining about Smith's terrible foul at the end, and there would be fans outside of the Palace with pitchforks because of Cheeks' inexplicable coaching decisions.

    As far as individual performances, Drummond was gassed. He looked like dead weight on defense out there, not moving or rotating or putting any effort in defending anyone but the big he was assigned to, and while this isn't all that new for him, the team should be a little concerned. He's supposed to be the defensive stopper on this team, but his defensive awareness just isn't improving. There was a moment in the second half where a guy went up for a shot about six or seven feet from the basket, and Drummond - a scant four or five feet away - didn't even move. No effort defensively at all, yet even through that, he managed to pull down a double double with 5 blocks - the dude is immensely talented and knew that this wasn't going to be a game that he had to give 100% because Phoenix does not have a ton of size. Amusingly enough, when Phoenix invoked the bang-a-Drum strategy, it caused Cheeks to totally panic, pulling him out and going small ball.

    Ugh, that small ball. Now, it's not like Detroit has been lock down in the fourth this season, but it was like Phoenix made one calculated strategic move (fouled Drummond intentionally), and Cheeks responded like a tiny animal running right into a trap. It allowed Phoenix to play the game their way, pushed Bynum into a center role, and allowed them to thoroughly abuse Detroit's terrible defense. Seriously, they cut through it like butter. And since Detroit couldn't get the turns they were getting in the first half, they weren't able to push the ball. Their offense slowed down, and they barely escaped with the win on a night when Phoenix was playing without arguably its best player (Bledsoe).

    That's not, of course, to say that Detroit didn't do anything right. Their first half was spectacular. They came out firing and ran it up against the Suns, and showed what this team is capable of when players actually play to their strengths:

    1) Jennings didn't shoot well, but that's not what he's good at - the team is going to win most games in which he nets 18 assists.
    2) Monroe wasn't efficient (and he was a liability defensively but that's primarily because of the stupid way he was being played), but he did finish with a double-double so he was productive.
    3) Smith played a great game, and looked like an all-star again. Seriously, if Detroit can actually surround him with guys that can legitimately spread the floor, he can be an absolute monster.
    4) KCP is getting better with every game. He seems to have found his shot, and he's the only one out there that can play any perimeter defense at all. Given what he brings to the table relative to the rest of the team, he might be one of the most important players they have.
    5) Singler was awesome. Purely awesome. I watched the tape four times last night, focusing on him each one. He didn't give up a single point, and the team was firing on all cylinders when he's in there. I don't know why Cheeks doesn't play him at the four more often, frankly; oh wait, it's because Mo has an agenda against winning. Best player on the team.

    So there was some good, some bad. If the team gets a real coach, a true 3, and establishes a rotation with their bigs, it should be one of the best in the East (though that's admittedly not saying much).
     
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