Discussion in 'December 2006' started by max, Dec 27, 2006.
Flip may have just created trade value for a team like Houston, Portland, maybe New Orleans.
Sheed needs to show up or sit a few games out. He is making this team much worse right now. We win this one if Max eats all of his minutes. Hell, we win this one if we just throw someone in who won't shoot.
A PF that shoots about 43% from the field is sad.
This was our third exciting loss in a row!
With the Suns coming in as one of the leagues hottest teams and the Pistons w/o Billups, most of us probably would admit that if we won we'd be surprised. Well the boys did not roll over. They survived several Nash to Amare runs to even take the lead with less than 5 mins left and were within 2 with less than a minutes left after trailing most of the game by 6+points.
Flip Jr's line of 18 pts ,7 assists, 2 turns pretty much matched CB's average stats, but most of that came in the 4th qtr. Still if he can get his teammates involved in both halves, then I like our chances in the next three upcoming games without Mr. Bigshot. Jr needs to improve his defense though and hopefully he doesn't face anymore guards like Nash.
Still not certain if Sheed was back to 100% or not. 36 mins 4-17 shooting including 0-7 from beyond the arc. JMAX. 18 mins 2-2 shooting and two blocks!! If the guy is not 100%, give him some rest. Counter the athleticism of Amare with the youth of the Brahma!!
Rip had a good game with the exception of the 6 TO's and Dice was productive in 17 minutes which could have been extended also. I guess the game was just too fast for Nazr.
The positive is that we fought back and didn't give up and surpisingly even out scored the Suns in the paint 50-42. Just couldn't stop the Nash & Stoudemire combo. Second time in three games we allow two players on the opposing team to score 30+points. Should have been able to stop at least one of them.....Nash was left open long enough to shoot 11 treys and buried 6 of them. That was the difference in the game IMO.
Tough loss, but we didn't quit.
Blaylock was out of his league, but have to remember the kid is still just a rook.
Tay nothing special.
Rip played great, but lost his shot as the game went on. First time I've seen Rip tired.
JMax good D, a monster block, still a black hole, but he made most of his shots.
McDyess, starting to look better.
Delfino, agressive, bs carry called on him, even bigger bs block that should have been a charge. Didn't get credit for all of his steals and rebounds in the game. Decent shooting, needs more minutes.
Murray, trade him now. Zero D. Horrible O first half, made his shots in the 2nd, and actually decided to pass a little in the 2nd, but he still over dribbled, and made some lucky shots. Only thing worse than taking a bad shot, is making it-positive reinforcement to a negative act.
Flip Saunders, bad game, 44 minutes for Rip? 38 minutes for Murray? Flip is a lot like LB in that he believes players can play a spot up, but not a spot down. So Delfino, a natural 2, can play the 3, but not the 1. Murray is a natural 1, but wants to be a 2. No reason Delfino shouldn't have been give a shot a Nash, it's not like he could have done a worse job than Murray. Some free advice, start Delfino at the point, sub JMax, Blaylock, Dice, and Murray. ONLY bring in Murray if he doesn't have to cover anyone.
This was a horrible game from the Pistons. I don't care how you slice it, there are no awards for playing close without Chauncey Billups.
We started off at our pace with a 6-0 lead but anyone who has watched the Suns knows they are a team of runs and droughts. They can go scoreless for 5 minutes and still finish with 30 in a quarter. Well the Suns had 29 in the first quarter. No surprise there for me.
The Suns are a unique team, one that plays little defense, that relies heavily on speed and athleticism to create scoring opportunities. It would have been the perfect opportunity to play Delfino at the point, heck, play him more than 19 minutes! Get Dupree a few minutes, let Will Blalock continue to play beyond 9 minutes argh! The rotations and personnel decisions by the Pistons were terrible and Flip Saunders is absolutely horrendous.
Delfino - 19 minutes (lead the team in rebounds and 3 point shooting)
Blalock - 9 minutes (1 rebound, 1 turn, 2 FTs made)
Maxiell - 18 minutes (4 points, 3 boards, 2 blocks, tons of energy)
McDyess - 17 minutes (8 points, 6 boards)
Mohammed - 16 minutes (3 points, 6 boards, 1 steal, 1 block)
Davis - DNP
Amir Johnson - DNP
Dupree - DNP
Detroit did make a run in the fourth quarter, but it was too little too late as Flip Murray converted several scoring opportunities but ultimately could not play enough defense to keep Steve Nash from closing out the game.
On that note, Nash is amazing. If you honestly think Billups should have been the MVP last year, you didn't pay any attention to Nash. He's the ultimate floor leader on offense, and tonight the Pistons gave him jumpshots electing not to allow him into the paint, and Nash made them pay banging down 6 of 11 three pointers.
The Pistons had no answer for Amare Stoudemire either and it looks like he is returning to his previous form.
Another poor game from Rasheed Wallace. Sheed was yapping all game and seemed to have lots of energy. On a night when his team needed him to go into the paint, pressure Amare, Diaw and Marion, Rasheed elected to shoot 0-7 from three point land. I just heard Piston coach Kevin Wilson say on the postgame show that he can't remember the last time Sheed went 0 fer from the arc. Well Kev, he's done it 5 times this month. Do you actually watch the games?
Flip Saunders answering Chris McCoskey in the postgame interview regarding what was wrong with Sheed said, "I don't know". Also said that Rip "ran out of gas". Gee, WHY NOT PLAY YOUR BENCH!!!
I know what was wrong with Sheed. He was lazy on defense and refused to make sacrifices for the team on offense. I still have 4 hours to ask slippy for a name change. ;)
We got caught up playing at their pace, and it killed us. Starters ineffective and out of gas, too many missed shots (1-15 from 3), not enough turnovers forced (9), too many turnovers conceded (14). Our bread and butter is stops down the stretch and playing smart. We did neither tonight.
Sorry folks, we are supposed to win at home. We are supposed to play defense. We are supposed to win. That is what good teams do. Instead the Suns did what good road teams do. Jump all over an opponent and play close enough to win in the last 2 minutes.
Flip Murray is a deceptive player. He makes some tough shots and gets on a roll offensively, but he gives you no effort on defense. He didn't contest jumpshots, he didn't try to fight through screens and frequently lost his man on defense. When the numbers come out on popcornmachine.net, I am pretty sure he was a MINUS player.
Also wanted to mention Tayshaun. He did get hot at one point and put up some points, but on a night when the team needed him to step up for Sheed and Billups, he turns in 14 points and doesn't commit a foul. A highlight block, but other than that, Tay did little to stand out. In his 5th year, I think we need to resign ourselves to the reality that Tay is a guy who takes over 5 games a season, and spends the rest of his time as a complimentary piece.
We got New Orleans on Thursday. I need a drink.
Good guys: Rip Hamilton, Jason Maxiell, Carlos Delfino
Middle-of-the-road guys: Flip Murray, Antonio McDyess, Tayshaun Prince, Nazr Mohammed, Tayshaun Prince
Bad guys: Will Blalock, Rasheed Wallace, Flip Saunders
Piston of the game: Rip Hamilton
The one possession Delfino was matched up on Nash he got rocked on his heels and gave him the baseline for an uncontested layup. Two of the three or four possessions he initiated the offense resulted in turnovers from his overdribbling and awful entry passes.
Now, Delfino's done a good job defending a lot of small guards quicker than Nash in the past, so I don't see why he can't match up on them more in the future - he could definitely do a better job containing just about anyone than Flip Murray, most of the time. But I don't think his game has developed to the point where he should play point guard; he seems to have a mental switch between "distributor" and "scorer" so that when he's creating shots for others, dishing creatively, and running an effective 2-man game his jumpshot breaks down and he accumulates charges, and when he's on the wing he's too aggressive with his own shot and doesn't see the floor as well. He needs to find a balance between the two to get more touches at guard: that could be as simple as developing confidence from more consistent minutes, or something else, but either way I don't think he's ready yet.
Now Maxiell, on the other hand, needs to play more, especially with his much improved pick and roll defense since he was torched by Marbury-to-Lee in the Garden. Just shut down Rasheed until Chauncey comes back and let his ankles rest.
No offense to Tayshaun, but I'm glad to see you're coming around.
ahb, Sheed said it wasn't the flu or tendonitis. He just couldn't throw the ball in the ocean, both teams played hard, get them next game, bla blabla.
I can put up with Sheed's hybrid poor man's Nowitzki role when he is effective, but if he's just going to float and play without hustle, he can pack up his BALL DON'T LIE act and move back to the west coast.
He's still good enough to be an enormous impact player when he makes the effort, and I don't think there's any way the Pistons could improve while this window's still cracked by trading him. He doesn't make enough of an effort while he's out there? Then Flip should cut his minutes. It's not like his position isn't the deepest one on the team, with the _iceman, two at least semi-talented, very physical bangers, and Amir blowing his rookie contract on street clothes chomping at the bit for more minutes. All it takes is for our resident Offensive Genius to imagineer up a way to convince himself to take a low-risk, high-reward gamble.
I'm not sure that I believe his claim not to be injured, though.
For me it comes down to Flip wants a well executed game plan with his players having the ability to score 95-100 a night and to hold the other team to 95 points. Saunders for good or for bad likes the zone defense and I have noticed lately other teams are using it to mix it up on D. I however think the best D is the nasty Eastern Conference mano to mano combat that resembles dirty dancing on a hot Saturday night in your local bar. The Pistons are an average defensive team and they can be shut down on offense with decent defense so what do they bring to the table to make them championship caliber? Today's game was winnable, Phoenix will let you score points and all Detroit had to do was play hard-nosed and send a soft team packing. Flip just seems to have a game plan that's hard wired or something. He hates to substitute very much in the first quarter and let's his best player just completely become run down. You know that Rip Hamilton takes pride in his game and having 6 TOs just is a big stain on an otherwise really great game.
I also do not take anything much positive here. The Suns set the pace of the game period. Never looked like we would win.
We had no answer for Nash, no answer for Amare. This is a team to reckon with.
Right, Tay was soft and Sheed non-existant. Since the Jersey game, we have played at a very low level defensively.
Yes, we missed Chauncey but unless we defend better, we will have trouble with this team.
That's the thing. Defense is not about talent. It is about energy and desire. I'm worried that performances like this will fool the Pistons into thinking that Flip Murray can be a contributor with his offense only and that Flip Saunders will continue to get positive reinforcement of a negative (16 Mile). That we can outscore opponents.
We cannot outscore teams. That is a fallacy. This is a middle of the road offensive team.
I wonder how we shot the three at that end.
That's a bit harsh on a guy who put up 11 points (56% shooting), 7 boards (led the team), 1 assist, and 1 steal in only 19 minutes. Plus he came up with 5 clutch points in crunch time.
His "Bad defense" was on a play off a loose-ball where the D was scrambled and he let the 2-time MVP get a layup. But look at the 4th quarter when Delfino was on Shawn Marion.... What exactly did Marion do? 1 defensive rebound and 0 points on 0-for-3 shooting. A guy who usually kills us with his offensive boards, and those feeds from Nash.
Also, he had 1 bad pass TO, not 2. The other TO was a palming violation. And his "3 bad jumpers" were only "Bad" because they didn't go in. They were all good looks, and none of them were of the Chauncey, dribble-dribble-chuck, variety. All in the flow of the offense. Hard to blame Flip's awful transition D against the MVP on a Delfino missing an open shot. You wanna talk bad shots, look at Sheed. That was hideous.
I agree, but he needs to get more aggressive on the defensive glass. That is his biggest weakness still. Otherwise, I still can't see how Flip keeps him off the floor. He makes things happen. From the charges to the blocks and the paint-points.
delfino played great. some of us like to see the one miss from 3 point land that he did. he also made a 3 just before that pulled us to within 1 i believe. he made a steal and a drive to the hole just before that. it seems like delfino is a major reason we've even been in position to win the last few games but a few of us like to see the 1 mistake he makes at the end of games. i say for a guy that was supposed to be out of the rotation he's bringing us a lot. for the delfino haters he's put like 3 good games in a row together.
starters killed us again this game. play the bench. amir would have been perfect for this game. jmax and fino give us lots of energy and production. will blaylock needs more minutes.
flip murray sucks. i don't care how many shots he made on nash. most of the shots he made were selfish. not to mention the amount of 3 balls nash dropped in his face. flip shot the ball off the side of the backboard. he sucks.
Defense? You guys are talkin about defense? I mean... this is the New NBA, and you guys are in here talkin about defense?
It's not like we aren't scoring, and we do use the zone... and you guys are still talkin 'bout defense? Defense?
lol @ linwood.
Just going through the Play-by-play (when I should be working no less...) it looks like Will Blalock was +1 and Flip Murray was -7. Can't wait to see the popcornmachine gameflow.
FreshPrince22, you're right about the other turnover, and yes, Delfino's defensive effort was better in the second half. I still believe that two of those 3-pointers were bad shots and another was very questionable.
Nobody stops Steve Nash, you only slow him down. Delfino covered Nash, only because Flip got lost. Delfino forced Nash to make great move, and squeeze the baseline without going out of bounds. Murray, who was behind Delfino, should have done something other than watch.
BTW, at least Delfino forced Nash to try hard. Murray got lost on pickandroll after pickandroll, making zero effort to keep up. I wished I taped the game, so I could make a youtube video of Flip standing behind Nash, watching Nash either drive for a shot, or making a great pass.
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