Discussion in 'December 2008' started by Dlev59, Nov 28, 2008.
To be fair though....
The lead in the first half was built with a smallball lineup IIRC
It wasn't that small
PopcornMachine's GameFlow - PHI @ DET
Max and Amir, theoretically is two bigs. At least two paint players.
I am not too worried because I think getting Dice back will allow us to play Amir and Max along side either Dice or Sheed. I think Sheed was just plain wore out last night. He missed that point blank put back right in front of the rim last night that would have extended our lead to seven. Instead he left it short from a foot and they came down and got the three from Marshall. That is a five point turn and instead of being up 7 the lead was trimmed to two.
He could hardly jump to get the rebound which fell into his hands and had no legs to dunk the put back. Turning point in whether we win or lose right there. It shouldn't have come to that but it did.
So if Tayshaun Prince were a couple years younger, and lacking the skills to play small forward, then playing him at forward/center wouldn't be small ball, because now he's a paint player?
One might have frosting and the other one might have sprinkles, but they're still donuts. The same sized donuts at that.
Heck, I could have a box I call "dinner donuts" and a box I call "lunch donuts" but if it's 6 am and I just woke up, it doesn't matter which box I open.
I'm still eating donuts for breakfast.
And I'm hungry now...
Donuts are so bad for you.
Max and Amir lead the Pistons in blocks per minute. Amir leads the Pistons in rebounds per minute, and neither player has taken a 3 yet this season (Tay has taken 33). I think it is safe to say they are paint players.
Yup, I agree!
I extracted the following from the popcorn flow site:
The positive stints:
+5 = AJ, RS, RH, JM, AA (9:55-3:08 of 2nd quarter)
+4 = TP, KB, AI, AJ, RS (2:43-1:23 of 1st quarter)
+4 = AJ, RS, RH, TP, AI (2:01-0:00 of 2nd quarter)
+3 = KB, RH, RW, TP, AI (12:00–2:29 of 3rd quarter)
+2 = AJ, RS, JM, TP, AI (1:22-0:00 of 1st quarter)
+2 = RS, RH, RW, TP, AI (3:46-1:24 of 4th quarter)
The nasty stints (these follow one after the other):
-4 = AJ, RS, RW, TP, AI (2:28-0:00 of 3rd quarter)
-3 = RS, JM, RW, AA, AI (12:00-7:23 of 4th quarter)
-6 = RH, RW, TP, AA, AI (7:23-3:46 of 4th quarter)
My own sense, based on nothing, is that Curry is not wedded to small ball per se. Maybe he's thinking that Tay gives us more offense than either Amir or JMax (which is probably true most of the time). In that case, when Dice is back, in whose offensive consistency he presumably has a similar level of confidence, we won't see any more of this. Just sprinkle some Dice into the nasty lineups above and I bet we'd have been fine. So, in case anybody was smoking crack and was concerned that I might be worried, I'm not.
I do agree with Max and lpgrl (from another thread I think) that last night when we were struggling to stop the bleeding and put it away, would have been a perfect time for AI to get himself to the line. In general, I'd like to see him look to finish himself on his drives, especially when he's out in front of the hoop (as opposed, i mean, to when he's on the baseline or working from under the hoop). He did a bit more of that last night, but he also missed, in my opinion, a few opportunities.
I'll also repeat, for emphasis, that though AI should never have thrown that pass on the turnover, the replay clearly showed that all four of the rest of them were standing out at the three point line. Not one person (and it only would have taken one person) cut down the lane (the way that JMax did on an earlier play, the way, hell, even Kwame did on a different earlier play -- both time for easy buckets). Even from the few games I have watched, I've seen how AI likes to break the defense down from the wing, or especially the baseline and then dish back up the middle into the paint. There's just no reason for all four of his teammates, on a play like that, to be spotted up around the arc.
But you're talking about what they do and trying to equate it into what they are. And that's just not sound logic.
These guys lead our team in a stat, not the league, and there's a reason for that. It's not that they're that good, it's that our team is so bad that nobody else can outperform two tweeners. And I can't believe it's even being considered that playing two guys under 6'9" at forward and center isn't small ball.
That was some shameful stuff right there.
It just doesn't seem like the D DET played against SA or CLE is sustainable. It seems almost as gimmicky as a zone.
I though it was at Flip's urging, but they still seem to make plays for the other team by trapping players in non-threatening positions. I can't remember who had the ball, but when Marshall hit the 3 to put Illy up 2 Sheed and whoever where trying to trap at the top of the key. I am not sure what was supposed to be done there, but the end result was 2 guys on one non-threatening man and Marshall wide open.
Seeing SA play and watching BOS (I need to stop doing this soon - POR gave them a ton of trouble) play a lot recently, it amazes me how infrequently Sheed gets the ball in scoring positions.
Back to the defense. DET's best defender is AA. AA plays the 2 guard. This is the same position TGRH and AI play. There is no question DET would be a better team with AA getting more burn. Where do the minutes come from? He can only play so much 3.
C'mon, I played C/PF and was under 6'9. It was in high school, but still..........
You have to keep in mind that for many there is no way we can/should win without 5 players 6'10" and above on the floor.
What they are is entirely subjective. I am saying, that within the Pistons roster (forget the league), Amir and Max are bigs. Tay is not a big. He doesn't play big. Amir, despite his size, does play big. He at least plays his size if not bigger. It can be argued that Tay does not.
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it might be a duck.
I'm not too happy with Amir or Max either, but that doesn't mean that there is no difference when one of them is on the floor with Sheed, vs. Tay at the 4.
WHICH btw, isn't even the real issue, because with Tay at the 4, that means Sheed at the 5, where he is not effective.
People don't like GT (missed free throws earns the nick) starting, but he serves a purpose out there. It gets everyone playing their natural position.
Amir's rebound per minute and block per minute #s are super impressive. And you know I ain't drinking the koolaid on that kid, but it is what it is.
I can't believe you eat donuts. Incredulity overload! :D
Our small ball lineup is good in spurts and gets some O and causes havoc on D( in spurts) Im not sure if it was just me? but I thought the starters got too many minutes in the third quarter and then when philly made the push...MC stayed with em. I would love to see the minutes played by quarter for max and amir. cause it didnt seem like they got much run in the second half. Especially when Philly started hittin the boards and killin us on second shots. If we coulda gotten one of them in there to help...if not both...
Amir: first half = 11:34 (end of first, most of second quarter); second half = 2:28 (end of the third quarter)
Jmax: first half = 11:20 (end of first, most of second); second half = 4:37 (beg. of 4th quarter)
thank you...that is a coaches bad decision and they shoulda got more pt. Especially the way they have played. As well as the fact that they needed to keep Philly off the boards and stop gettin outhustled. Tay and Sheed both had off nights and shouldnt have been in there that long.
Micheal Curry threw the game with this small ball.
Just an idea. By simply putting in Amir in for AI, we go from small ball:
AI, Stuckey, Afflalo, Prince, Sheed
Stuckey, Afflalo, Prince, Amir, Sheed.
I am talking about mid 4th quarter. AI should have been resting. Like all humans. AI is no exception to players playing better with rest.
You sure this wasn't all Fabio's fault ?
I finally saw the game and the Pistons looked good in the first half, but once the second half got going I could see the tide changing in favor of the sixers, (even thhough I knew the outcome.) Even with two mins left in the game and the Pistons up 85-82, I kept saying to myself, how in the same hill did they blow this and how do Sixers score 14 points in less than 2 minutes???
Looks like to me the Pistons were victims in the end of quick younger Sixers vs a tired and old Sheed and AI. Only Stuckey seemed to be trying to keep the Pistons in it.
Louis Williams, Thadeus Young along with an old Donyell Marshell and the much quicker Andre's (Miller and AI #2, Iguagola) outhusled the slower Pistons. Williams must have scored 12 of his 16 points in the last 3 minutes to singlehandedly beat the underachieving out coached Pistons..
Still not the end of the world, but right now I see a first round exit in the playoffs...with my pessimistic self...please Pistons prove me wrong!!!
I woulda preffered Tay goin out and Amir or max coming in. AI does draw a crowd and he can get some easy hoops for max or amir around the rim. similar to how he lays the table for Kwame. That way Sheed if hes in there can draw a big away from the hoop and we still have ai and stuck driving to the hoop Rip has been hitting his jumper better lately and keeps his man honest.
just a thought from a fan talkin outta his @88
I am usually more excited when stuck, AA, amir, and max are out there with one of the "starters"
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