Orlando Magic Dec. 29th, 7:30 PM

Discussion in 'December 2008' started by Dlev59, Dec 26, 2008.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Where to start?

    How about for the 3rd time this season, we knocked off the current hottest team in the League. (LA Lakers, Cleveland, now Orlando). And yet what do I hear from a lot of the posters? We are rebuilding. We need to make a trade. Really? And we did not even play Brown, who could have helped on Howard. Got to love this kind of depth. Heck, even with our leading scorer for the last several years out injured.

    How about our four young stars. (Wise, don't read this paragraph, as it will just upset you.) Amir, Stuck, Afflalo, JMAX. A lot of people like to find a lot of fault with these young players. And yet, here is a game tonight where between the 4, a whole lot of minutes were played. Two of them started, Stuck and Amir. The other two were part of our 3 man bench tonight. A huge presence for them in this game, and again, we beat the hottest team in the league at the moment.

    Now small ball. Yes, I know most of us would like to forget the existence of such a concept. Tonight made it easy to do so, as not one moment of the game was played with small ball. Playing the guys we have on the team, as long as we stick to a traditional rotation (one with a power forward in all the time, a small forward at small forward - that kind of thing) we have the talent on the team to win it all this year. Please Curry, for the sake of Pistons fans sanity everywhere, can the small ball.

    Amir. 4 Fouls. Two of them were to intentionally send Howard to the line. Good stuff. No real problem. Yes, he made a mistake fouling a three point shooter. It happens. Amir played plenty, was extremely active on D and getting us offensive rebounds. He played the entire 3rd quarter, only picking up one foul. We outrebounded them. I see some people think maybe Kwame should have started instead of Amir. Nope, that would have been an imbalanced front line, forcing Sheed to have to guard Turk or Lewis on the perimeter. The starting unit we used was about perfect. The other choice, to start JMAX would also have worked, as JMAX is a pretty darn active defender himself.

    JMAX. He did some scoring. He went where he felt like, knocking the Orlando players around like bowling pins. And he rotated great, not too much dropoff there from what Amir was doing, which is really something. We never had to use him to guard Howard.

    Afflalo. He hit an outside shot, played fine D, in general helped the offensive flow. Got a lot of rebounds. In short, a bit of everything, including being a defensive sub in the last minute of the game.

    Stuckey. Awesome tonight. Helped get Nelson in foul trouble. Made a bunch of outside shots. Got into the lane for scores. Orlando just could not stop the guy.

    AI. Kept making shots here and there. One of his biggest of the night put us up 7 with around 90 seconds to go in the game. These shots were mostly off his own dribble. He also continued to try to get the ball to other players. I thought he fit perfectly into the game flow. And anyone notice, just 3 turnovers tonight. Great job for Stuckey and AI there. I love having two point guards in the backcourt. Sorry Rip, bench for you.

    Tay. Great game. Hitting shots, even made a three, first time in about a month. He got inside plenty. Lots of rebounding from him. And fine defense on Lewis, or sometimes Turk. (Although, Lewis ended up having a great outside game against us, hitting 5 or 6 triples.)

    Sheed played great D on Howard, especially in the first half, where we held the whole Orlando team to 2 inside points for most of the first half. That is pretty incredible. Howard did start getting good setups close in from his teammates to get him going in the 2nd half.

    Dyess took his turn against Howard, and did well. He also canned several outside shots. Not a bad fit at all for this game, when palying center, as Orlando was looking to pack it in tight on D and Dyess can hit the completely open J all day. It was not so pretty when Dyess and Sheed paired up though, making Sheed have to guard the perimeter. (If I am not mistaken, I think Lewis got a few of his threes in this setup.) I also liked seeing Dyess going inside around crunch time.

    It was interesting watching the guard matchups. We had AI guard the taller Bogans, while Stuck gaurded Nelson. It worked out great, and you would never know Nelson was anything from watching this game. Meanwhile, Bogans took advantage just the one time I can remember in driving in and scoring on AI. Good job by both our guards on D tonight. Between shutting down Nelson, and scoring about 20 points, Stuckey easily was our player of the game for this one. (Although a case could be made for Sheed since he excelled at the toughest defensive assignment, and scored plenty.)
     
  2. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    What is needed is for Tay to play less. If he was not quite so leg dead, he could go back to making long outside shots regularly. This game pointed out big time the need for a guy like Sharpe to get some playing time. Tay had to play 44 minutes, because he matched up so well with Turk and Lewis. Sharpe and Amir are the only other two guys we got with the same kind of profile as Tay, tall and real quick. Of course, we need Amir at power forward in a game like this, so playing him at small forward would be inviting even more foul trouble for him. We don't need Sharpe to score for us, just play D on tall, quick guys like Lewis and Turk.
     
  3. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    This article answers a lot of our questions concerning MC's thought process and small ball.

    True Blue Pistons

    Hell yeah! It is a tough decision, that's why we got a tough coach, right?

    Right again, MC.

    Woo hoo!

    What? No... Come on... @$#$ :frusty:

    Alright, he's back! :thumb:

    Man, this is a procrastination showcase by MC. It's a tough decision. Laimbeer would make it and not give a crap. Just do it dude. Pull the trigger. Small ball beat OKC by 2. Big ball beat LA, Cleveland, and Orlando.
     
  4. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    NBA.com Stuckey, Pistons end Magic's winning streak at 7

     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    He's becoming a Piston.
     
  6. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    (On Curry might know what he is doing). Micro, you crack me up!
     
  7. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

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    Iverson is pretty media savvy. Hell he's even adopting the Rasheed disposition ("nobody outside of our fans are even giving us a chance") Doesn't really stick his foot in his mouth like Billups did.

    He does get very depressed though after losses.
     
  8. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    It's easy to say send Rip to the bench, but if that happens AA will get some serious DNP's. Don't believe me, go ahead and calculate the min distribution, it would be almost impossible to get AA on the floor for more than 6 mpg, unless AI decides he only needs 36 mpg, then we can get him (AA) 10 mpg, One must keep in mind that in order for Rip and AI to be on the floor together and play effectively, Stuckey (not Tay or AI) must be running the point. Although it would give us the chance to seriously reduce Tay's mins to around 30.

    Man what a frikking dilemma, if MC can figure this one out, he's earned every penny of his salary.
     
  9. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I thought that article was great, and i'm glad we seem to be moving into the progression of staying big. I would say it's more leaning towards Rip off the bench from reading between the lines (AI definitely sounds like someone who knows it won't be him). But i like that they seem to be giving it alot of thought.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    When people call me Micro, it makes me feel nostalgic in a good way. Thanks.
     
  11. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    That is probably true. That is why it would be better to bring AI off the bench... cause he could play the point.


    I agree that it is a very tough decision. But not making any decision has been demoralizing to the team. Not just the losing, but having Tay bang against 4's and Sheed having to protect the entire paint himself while guarding centers.

    Without the wins and especially the convincing wins (like against Milwaukee), nobody will be happy, even if they are getting their minutes. AI is on record as saying that he will do anything that is asked of him. If we are hoping to keep him beyond this year, then start him. If we think he's gone, then bring him off the bench and ignore any grumbling.
     
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Chunk of an Iverson postgame interview from the DetNews.
     

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  13. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Rip coming off the bench does not mean Afflalo has to play a lot less. The other option, playing all of Stuckey, AI, Rip, and Tay less makes a lot of sense.

    Lets say we start AI, Stuckey, Prince, Amir, Sheed.

    Power forward is easy. JMAX plays the minutes Amir can't. Ditto for center, Dyess plays the minutes Sheed can't. We got Kwame for added depth.

    To back up Tay, we use Rip or Afflalo, the same two who backup AI and Stuckey. Thats 5 guys, for 144 minutes, which is 29 minutes per game per player.

    Afflalo just needs 20, to make sure our perimeter D stays solid. You distribute his 9 extra minutes to the other 4, and they, AI, Rip, Stuckey, and Tay, are at about 31 minutes per game.

    Now, since Rip is coming off the bench, you keep him down to around 28 minutes. Now you are at 32 minutes each for Stuck, AI, and Tay.

    Stuck is a rook. 28 minutes per game should be plenty for him. That bumps Tay and AI up to 34 minutes. Tay can only play 30 effectively, putting AI at 38. Which is still too much for him.

    Ok, so how about:

    Afflalo 20
    Stuck 30
    Rip 28
    Tay 30
    AI 36

    That is a nice solid 5 man guard / small forward rotation with about the right amount of minutes for each player.

    Now, in my opinion, in actuality we will start blowing teams away with regularity if we go to such a nice logical 9 man rotation. (with Kwame being the 10th guy.) I doubt these players will even quite average the above minutes.

    On top of that, if we play some small ball here and there, that means Tay plays some power forward, leaving even more minutes opened up for Afflalo at small forward.

    Also, I would rather see each of these 5 guys play even 2 minutes less than above, to allow for 10 minutes per game for Sharpe to play.
     
  14. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Sorry my man but I have no faith in AI's PG abilities. While he racks up asts, they're not PG type assts, AI's a playmaker, but in no means a PG.

    I think Vinny needs to stop by Rips house with a six-pack of Vernors, a bag of Better Made Potato chips, and have a long talk about how great it was to be the Microwave, coming off the bench as the 3rd guard in the greatest 3 guard rotation in the history of Western Civilization. Vinny could cue up some old footage and the 2 of them could watch them together like Barkley and Wade in those T-Mobile commercials:

    Vinny (acting like Barkley), "Did you see me on fire, NOW THAT!! was impressive!!!"
    Rip (acting like D-wade): "Now that was impressive, the way you could shoot with those tight little shorts on.......ssexxxxyyyy"
     
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    I was hoping you'd do this for me...thanks Ol' Buddy. For ONCE (and I mean ONCE) I totally agree with the min distribution calculations of the GREAT Gen Lee 356.
     
  16. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    The problem was, the Pistons bench thought they were good enough to start (and probably could) during the Bad Boys era.

    Vinnie was only playing 3rd fiddle because Joe and Zeke were HOFers.

    It's hard to argue that both Stuckey and AI can displace Rip.

    I only see a trade as the way out, and no people AI is not going to sit on the bench or get traded. That is in your wildest dreams.

    Rip will have to accept the bench role, or go in a trade. Personally, I would like to see him stay. I don't think we're going to get a quality big back for him, and his recent contract extension will affect his tradeability.

    I would have massive respect for Rip if he did this for the team. But I don't know that he will. I'm not sure we've made all of the stowaways walk the plank yet.
     
  17. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I don't see why this is out of the question. In terms of the bench, he's only a one year rental so what does it matter if he whines about coming off the bench?

    And in terms of trading him, I think it's an unlikely situation as well, but i'm curious to why you think it's impossible.
     
  18. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Here's what we're learning, we can win without him at all. We've played our best basketball without him IMO, it opened up the door for expanded roles for AA and AJ and I see no reason why the 2 of them can't do everynight, what they did tonight. We just beat the team with the most dominant center in the league w/out using Kwame Brown, we beat them with $14mill of salary on the bench-DNP CD&Injury.

    Maybe we make another Cap space trade, where we take back a lesser player (younger, hopefully with a good upside) and a pick, it would clear cap space and get us much younger at the same time, we could essentially sign Wade and Stoudemire or Bosh in 2010......Moving forward with Stuckey, Tay, Wade and Stoudemire with AA, AJ, and Maxx in the mix, looks good to me. I can dream, can't I?
     
  19. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Because Joe will never be able to attract another high profile FA. Because he is plugged into Uncle Wes' world, and Uncle Wes is the premier power mover in the NBA.

    I loathe politicking, but politics (the management of relationships via compromise and double dealing) are key to success in the business world.

    Trading AI? How could Joe get any value for him? He's not the AI everyone thought we were getting. His performance in Detroit hasn't increased his value league wide.

    Like it or not, AI will be here all season. That $20 million expiring contract is more valuable than a top 5 draft pick. It allows Joe to potentially BUY a proven All-Star commodity.
     
  20. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It's a sweet dream. :D

    I almost agree with you about this being the best game so far, but I think the Laker game was more meaningful. A road win against a Finals team. The Magic are like red headed stepchildren. They can't play on our swing set because Uncle Sheed said so.
     

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