Away New York Knicks Sunday Nov 25 2012

Discussion in 'November 2012' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Slippy

    Slippy All-Star Administrator Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    818
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    This is a strange statement.

    Jason Maxiell:
    11/9 vs OKC 1 pt 6 reb 0 blk 0 stl
    11/10 vs HOU 6 pts 4 reb 1 blk 0 stl
    11/21 vs ORL 4 pts 7 reb 0 blk 0 stl
    11/25 vs NYK 4 pts 4 reb 1 blk 0 stl

    I don't know what the expectations are. Drummond's per 36 is a bit better than Maxiell's.
  2. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,211
    Likes Received:
    3,250
    Location:
    Michigan
    Per 36 minutes:

    Maxiel: 12.6 pts, 8.7 reb, 1.6 blk, 0.4 stl, 50.5% FG, 70.3% FT
    Drum: 15.0 pts, 11.5 reb, 2.2 blk, 1.9 stl, 65.5% FG, 42.9% FT
  3. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I think you could make a case that Drummond is already the Pistons best player. He is the only Piston player who can stand amongst the league's elite players with his strength and athleticism.

    I can't imagine another team having as much trouble finding minutes for a guy who is the biggest, fastest, most agile player on their plodding roster who doesn't need plays run for him to sprint around the court like a maniac trying to block or dunk everything.

    The Pistons treat him like he has AIDS.
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Is there another NBA team out there that has a worse combination of shooting and athleticism than the Pistons? It is hard to take them seriously as a team until they can improve upon that.

    I thought the Pistons played decently today. They were just totally outclassed in talent.

    JR Smith looked like he was from a different planet than the Pistons guards he was going against.

    I still had that blah feeling about Knight today, but I like him when he's shooting more and playing fast like he was today.

    Kyle Singler has made Stuckey irrelevant.

    The Knicks had to guard CG when he was in the game. I thought his first half was one of his best runs since he's been here. He wasn't horrible.
  5. Pistons0809

    Pistons0809 Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    327
    Likes Received:
    230
    Gender:
    Male
    Nice to see Charlie silence the naysayers in front of his friends and family in New York. Hopefully Coach Frank will recognize that his energy and talent could pay dividends in serious rotation minutes and finally make Piston Nation truly believe in and embrace him for all time.
    basketbills, BallDon'tLie and Mogilny like this.
  6. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I can't stand watching Rodney Stuckey. I can't stand watching Charlie Villanueva. Coach played them together! Truthfully I'm good with playing Charlie, some folks really rag on Bynum but he's the only aggressive guard we have and I believe that his job is to come in and provide instant offense, who else on the bench is going to do it? Maggette? JJ? Stuckey? and it's been noted that Drummond is not a player who you run plays for, but with that said, bynum is Drummonds best set up man so far this season. Back to BoT, the book is out on JJ, for all that running around and hustling the fact remains that he still can't score and is usually overmatched on the defensive end, so you may as well suck with BoT. Knight had a really good game, put up some great numbers, another one of his: once every 10 game outings.
    Ernie the Slow Adult likes this.
  7. del

    del Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2009
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Geneva
    I hope this is sarcasm.
    S.J. likes this.
  8. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    Messages:
    15,211
    Likes Received:
    3,250
    Location:
    Michigan
    I think you said that 3 games ago. :)
  9. S.J.

    S.J. All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    340
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Argentina
    I think it wasn't.. Pistons0809 is one of the most blind pistons fans out there. With all due respect.

    I'm with Ernie, Drummond is the best thing we have besides Monroe.

    There is no other player useful.

    Another thing... Why Jerebko didn't play?
  10. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    825

    There's no doubt that Drummond's numbers are better than Maxiell's. I could make the argument that he's playing primarily against bench players so that skews the results, but I don't really care about that.

    One could also make the argument that just because he's getting these numbers in the role he has now does not mean that he will make those numbers in the role everyone wants him in.

    But I would like, instead, to make the point that if the team simply put out its best five guys (based on current PER), they would be running out a lineup of Middleton/Daye/Maxiell/Drummond/Monroe. Now, obviously this is nonsense, because Maxiell, Drummond, and Monroe all play frontcourt positions and Middleton and Daye are based on production in garbage time. But then (in my argument with myself), I might point out that competition level should also negate some of Drummond's production, so I can't get rid of that from consideration. Basically, the big problem with this lineup is overlap and team balance.

    So let's consider the whole thing from a team balance perspective - let's say you run out a lineup of Knight/Singler/Prince/Monroe/Drummond (as most people here seem to feel would be reasonable). What does that offense look like? Drummond is not a threat for a jump shot, but if you leave him down low, that eliminates part of Monroe's post game because it clogs up the lane and allows other teams to knock the ball away from Greg (who does not have great hands).

    And what would have happened in this game if Drummond and Monroe had played together? One of those two would have had to guard Carmelo. Not an ideal matchup. Melo can just shoot from outside or just drive past Monroe; if you put Drummond on him, then you've taken Drummond away from the basket and negated his strengths.

    Now, (again, in my argument with myself), what about offense? If one of those two has to guard Carmelo, doesn't that mean that Carmelo has to guard one of those two? Yes, probably. What I would do if I were Woodson would be to put Chandler on Monroe and Anthony on Drummond. Great - Anthony sucks defensively but instead of taking advantage of that mismatch, now he doesn't have to worry about anything other than the occasional put-back dunk. Meanwhile, Monroe has Chandler, who's effectively negating him. By pairing Monroe with Maxiell, you're giving your team some semblance of offensive balance that doesn't exist (yet, hopefully) with Monroe and Drummond, and making Anthony work more (in theory).

    If you pair Drummond and Monroe right now, they have to work together. Drummond, though, is primarily an opportunist - he gets a lot of points off of assists and second-chance buckets. Monroe gets those, too, remember, so Drummond is going to cut a little into his numbers. Defensively, they could be solid, but just because they're tall does not mean that they're good. It's easy to get both of them out of position, and Monroe is not quick enough nor enough of a shot-blocker to make up for those lapses.

    I said it earlier and I'll say it again - NY is a terrible matchup for Detroit. As long as Drummond doesn't offer much more than defense and rebounding, it's hard to take advantage of his athleticism offensively. Ben Wallace was allowed to be the defensive specialist because Billups, Hamilton, Prince, and Wallace could all score in bunches. This current starting unit doesn't have that. Until they get guys that can (on any given night) put up 20 if they need to, the starting unit needs that fifth option to score. Drummond does not give them that, and I think that's why he was subbing in directly for Monroe.
    brofmfa and Slippy like this.
  11. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    I would feel better with Drummond trying to guard Melo than any of the other Pistons. If they put Melo on him defensively then run him to the rim. He would jump with him once provided the Pistons had a guard that could actually throw him a pass. (They don't.)

    This team is horrible. It is ridiculous to say they can't play this guy because he can't shoot from 18'. I really want another guy who looks like he and his crew cut should be underhanding his shots towards the basket like it is 1950.

    Here is a crazy thought. What if they made it a point to play the 1 guy who can do what no one else on the team can and then made the rest of the 1 dimensional, poor to average players fit in with him?
    coynejeremy likes this.
  12. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    True or False: The Pistons would not play Shaq if he were a rookie on this years team because he might jam up Monroe's game.
    BallDon'tLie likes this.
  13. jzchen

    jzchen Bench Warmer Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    795
    Likes Received:
    41
    Location:
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Did not expect to win the game at all.

    The Good: After the lay up victory vs the Raptors, BK7 has more confidence in driving for lay ups. And shooting the 3 when he is wide open instead of looking to pass or put up a shot off a dribble which he makes at a 10% rate. He needs to keep this pattern up.

    The Bad: 20 TOs. Cut the TOs into half, we might lose he game with a respectable margin.

    Ever since Singler has inserted into the starting line up, we have no trouble scoring (except the 8 pt quarter at Orlando). Instead of having troubles on both the offensive and defensive end at the beginning (when Stuckey was the starter), we have one less trouble now.
  14. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    825
    True or False: Drummond is Shaq.
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,853
    Likes Received:
    786
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    I keep arguing that Monroe's inability to play effectively as a PF is the hold up in this process. When Greg starts to operate better at the high post, and that basically means knocking down shots from 15-18 feet, you'll see more Monroe/Drummond pairings.
  16. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    He is closer to Shaq than anything they have. He is a beast that the entire league will have trouble matching up with.

    That seems more important to me than keeping Kyle Singler's driving lanes open.
  17. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    825
    I hope you're right, but we have absolutely no evidence of that yet. Shaq was a dominant force that could back anyone down and dunk over them, and did it time and again. I've seen nothing from Drummond indicating that he can do that.
  18. Laimbrane

    Laimbrane All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,187
    Likes Received:
    825
    I've seen more of the ability to play from the high post recently - he had seven assists in this game - but you're right... he has to be able to knock down that shot regularly, and that's not going to come overnight.

    Drummond also needs to develop a post game - fade away jumper, a little hook move... something - in order to be anything other than another Javale McGee.
  19. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2005
    Messages:
    6,638
    Likes Received:
    2,709
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    So does Jason Maxiell.
    Ernie the Slow Adult and del like this.
  20. Mogilny

    Mogilny All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2010
    Messages:
    3,004
    Likes Received:
    1,232
    Considering the well-balanced Bynum Stuckey Maggette JJ Drum-unit gets quite some burn I'm not sure this is relevant to Frank. But perhaps having Max Dirk-like shooting in the starting lineup negates the implosion lineup.

Share This Page