Away New York Knicks Monday Feb 4 2013

Discussion in 'February 2013' started by roscoe36, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Well, at least we have a point guard who can shoot the ball very well from the outside. Other than that, nothing has changed. Still the same coach, who would apparently use five point guards if he had half a chance to. It looks more and more like he just does not understand basketball in the slightest. It is not who you like, or who you think is the best player. It is who can play a needed role. Knight was totally worthless along side Calderon. Singler is the only guy starting who should take an outside shot other than Calderon. Outside shots from Monroe and JMAX were pointless in this game. Further, Monroe tried to force things with nobody out there to actually pass to and the lane all jammed up.

    How strange to see Bynum out there in crunch time with Calderon and Knight sitting on the bench. And Stuckey, can't shoot a lick, so I feel sorry for Bynum even to have to have had no shooting guard in the game.

    Monroe, with nothing good to do, did bad, turing it over five times.

    Stuckey had some good moments, all of which he could have as the backup point. His driving inside is a good thing. Only he needs shooters out there with him to space the floor to make his drives more successful.

    Defensively, Bynum did not work out in this game. The guards on NY are like trees to him. Still, we made somewhat of a run to cut it to 12 with still just enough time to make a game out of it. Then NY it three consecutive 3's, and that was game. No defense.

    Singler got pretty much eaten alive by Melo. Singler mind you did not play poorly on defense, Melo is just that good. The guy who we might have liked to try on Melo, Daye, got traded so what choice did we have.

    First time in a long time, Drummond did not play in the 2nd half. For while there, it looked like coach wanted Monroe to just play the whole game.

    JJ added some hustle to an otherwise very dull game by the Pistons.

    From what I can see, we would have been better off not using Calderon as the point at all, but rather as a shooting guard - which the Pistons need desperately. Mind you, we have shooting guards who can play just fine, but coach won't give English nor Middleton any kind of real chance to see what they can do.

    I am wondering how Calderon is feeling at this point. And I am wondering how long before his every thought is "get me out of here. The season can't end soon enough."

    Just for the record. Bynum was minus 5, despite the run toward the end of the game. So he has been positive in one game the last month now. Good reason to keep playing him, in Frank's mind.

    Not in mine. Fix the starting unit:

    Calderon, English, Middleton, Monroe, Drummond.

    2nd unit: Stuckey, Singler, CV at small forward, JMAX, Kravtsov.

    Knight? No role available at the moment. Use him as an emergency point guard.
    The Panda likes this.
  2. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Good post, but I disagree with two things.

    1- I think Knight could be good as our shooting guard. Calderon is not an SG. He is just not fast enough. Plus I want him dishing and controlling the ball. Notice how many turnovers he had?

    2- And CV at small forward. Wow, imagine if Melo got subbed in against that? Layup city. No thank you, a million times. That 2nd unit is completely unserviceable defensively with those two holes on the wing and not enough help inside to cover.
  3. alexa032

    alexa032 Team Captain

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    Jose is a very "safe" PG just like Tay was a very "safe" SF - and both tend to like to slow things down and hang onto the ball a lot. I'm reserving judgment on Calderon because it's the Knicks who we always get blown out by, but "slow" is not a word I like to hear when describing the Pistons' pace. And Tiny Tot was in full on tank mode today, playing crappy tiny ball lineups like there was no tomorrow.

    Side note: Brandon looked uncomfortable as hell at the 2. Greg just looked plain awful in the first half.
    Also, why do players playing at SG always end up standing at the 3 point line every single possession? Is Frank really that uncreative? They always end up turning into Invisible Men.
  4. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    A few observations:

    * Calderon has a very sweet outside shot.
    * Calderon's defense is not bad.
    * Jerebko did make several nice hustle plays (good call, lee356).
    * The Knicks are simply way better than the Pistons. It's like boys vs. men. New York is as good as any team in the NBA, imho.
    * BK7 has officially lost his jump shot. He needs to go to the rack a few times before he starts jacking 3s five feet behind the line.
    del and Ernie the Slow Adult like this.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I started thinking the Piston were winning when they were only down 15 or 16.

    Frank deserves some time to re-set the rotation after the trade, but it does make you wonder how he sees small ball when he looks at this roster. Lee is right (mostly) that he'd play 5 PG's if he could. I think he'd play 4 so he could get Kyle Singler on the court.

    Jonas looks like the new low man on the rotation totem poll, but he sat for a long time also.

    I keep thinking Calderon is Carlos Delfino when I watch him play.
  6. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    1) No.
    2) Just pointing out, we could have kept Daye. A small forward who can play defense, and shoot well from the outside. But, look, we once had a dynamite 2nd unit with Corliss Williamson as our small forward. Just like Corliss, we would only use him to stay near the basket on defense while everyone else rotates to cover the perimeter. It can be done.
  7. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    1) Thats not a good discussion. Knight is a catch and pop shooter, he can't make off the dribble. He is fast and has good stamina. His passing vision is limited at best. He has big time length, and good lateral movement. What is stopping him from being a SG? I don't expect him to magically become Dwayne Wade, but I think he could be serviceable. Look at Singler - he has even less of the requisite tools.

    2) Daye wasn't a good defender, or a good shooter. He was often late on his assignment and rarely provided help. I feel like he got a bit overwhelmed. He really needed a good system and he wasn't given one either, so not all his fault. I like the idea of a scoring 2nd unit rather than a pit of terrible, but I couldn't live with CV at the 3, he is just not quick enough and would get us burnt all the time - especially if you are forcing Kratsov to rotate to the perim. It just creates terrible matchups and leaves guys isolated on the perimeter on defense. It could work, but that doesn't make it a good idea.
  8. Lee356

    Lee356 All-Star

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    Knight can only shoot if he is allowed no pressure on his shot. Singler is by no means the ideal shooting guard, which is why I long ago said he should replace Tay at small forward. But at least Singler has enough height that its harder to challenge his shot. PS, in this particular game, the four things most unwanted to see: Knight shooting. Monroe or Jason shooting. Stuckey shooting. Monroe passing the ball, when there was nothing there.

    Daye was excellent at defense - if you allowed him to do what he does best, use his length to bother perimeter shots. Instead, initially, Daye was looked at as a power forward - even though he has no bulk for that position. Like you said, Daye was in a messed up system, where we had no interior defense. So Daye was called upon to be everywhere. Indeed, if Daye stayed on the perimeter, to do what he does best, coach would immediately pull Daye. Never, ever, would coach just give in and play actual defenders at the power forward and center positions. This season, Daye bothered a ton of shots. And he was asked to just about everything else, including rebounding. Bad shooter? Daye once made 10 or so 3's in one game. He was looking pretty good this season. Remember, it was the addition of Daye that made our 2nd unit click this season. (Nothing else had worked to that point.) Absolutely, he can shoot the ball. And with his length, its not easy at all to challenge his shot.
  9. The Panda

    The Panda Garbage Post All Star Forum Donor

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    Knight shoots 45.5% on hand off 3pt's and 36.4% on spot up 3pts. He allows just .78 points per play and a 35% chance to score on those he is guarding. That is pretty serviceable.

    For comparison, Stuckey (who some say is a better defender), allows .98 points per play and 43% chance to score.

    Being a wacky waving inflatable arm man on the perimeter and playing defense are two seperate and distinct things. Defense in the NBA is not about flailing about on the perimeter, it is about teamwork first and foremost. Thats why 1 on 1 defenders and ballhogs suck in the NBA on defense - its a frame of mind.

    Daye had a beautiful stroke. I don't know what I was thinking. Great shooter, poor scorer.
  10. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    Listen, if Brandon Knight cannot play PG, then he is virtually useless. I've laid off the kid because unlike my buddy Lee, I don't need to pile on the kid EVERYDAY (like Lee does with Bynum), but here's the reality.......he's just not that good, when a guy plays well every 3rd or 4th game you know what that means? You're a sub .400 basketball team! In no-way-what-so-ever is he a SG in the NBA- PERIOD! The best SG on this roster (IMO) is a 2nd rd draft pick that can't get off the bench, English.
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Lee, I think you are overestimating what Middleton is capable of. The kid hasn't played any meaningful minutes in an NBA game yet and you're inserting him in the starting lineup. I would like to see what the kid can do off the bench first.

    Also, I disagree with Daye's defense. He had the potential to be the defender that you make him out to be, but when I watched him play he kept on missing defensive assignments left and right.
  12. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    It was hard to judge anything about Calderon's time. It was short. I didn't see Andre play, but apparently he got pulled for playing bad?

    I thought JJ was brilliant with Melo. You need to be rough with a guy like Melo and constantly hack at the ball whenever he exposes it. You can't defend against a guy like that rocking backward on your heels. JJ played very gritty basketball when he was in.

    Charlie actually played pretty good too. When he tries on defense, he's good. When he's just reacting and not being aggressive, he is turrible.

    Will as usual was great. Stuck was good and bad down the stretch. I thought Kyle was pretty outmatched in this one.

    Greg, well, dumb turnovers. His ball handling ability is really overrated considering how bad he is handling the ball. Same thing with Brandon.

    If Brandon has a typical "good" not great, game, then we might have won this.
  13. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    I watched the game on mute and was sure drummond suffered some sort of minor injury and that was why frank was forced to ride a mishmosh of undersized lineups throughout the rest of the game.

    Was it his -3, 1 for 6 shooting, 6 rebs, and a block in 8 min that got him in trouble? Knight 2 for 10. Jm with 3 total rebs and 1 fg. Monroe with 5 tovs, which seems grossly understated. Dude had jd's popcorn butter on his hands.

    That was the most physically dominated we've looked all year. Chandler and amare vs monroe and charlie? Yikes.
  14. Menace

    Menace Bench Warmer

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    Drummond had a sore back:
    New Piston Jose Calderon 'thinking too much' in debut | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com

    Andre Drummond (sore back) didn't play the second half, after laboring through eight minutes in the first.
    "It happened the Laker game when he landed (late)," Frank said. "He never felt in the first half that he could get it loose. They wanted me to take him out earlier, but he said he was OK and we gave it another go."
    Drummond has had back issues from training camp, but he said "that was because I wasn't in shape, we're past that," and he believes the soreness won't hinder him on Wednesday.
    "I tweaked it a little bit, nothing major," he said. "It just will take a few hours and I'll be all right."
  15. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

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    You could see him laboring, he couldn't even stand up straight.
  16. BallDon'tLie

    BallDon'tLie All-Star 3x Fantasy Champion

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    I usually try and stay away "rotation" discussions but last night, Little Lawrence's lineups really grinded my gears. The only time a team should ever consider a small-ball lineup is when you have guys at those positions that create matchup problems for the opposing team. Aside from Teen Wolf, NONE of our guards presents much of a matchup problem for opposing teams.

    The Frankster needed to stay conventional in this one and the team needed to simply hustle more and execute better than the Knicks. It's crowded at PG right now and the answer isn't playing 3 of 'em at a time.
    Stuckey is NOT a SF.
    Knight is only situational SG.

    Stuck (along with BoT) needs to be in street clothes until a trade can be put together. Hell, I wouldn't even require the guy to show up for games anymore.
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    What was up with Charlie V attempting 1 three pointer in 22 minutes? That's not stretching the floor.

    On defense, I find it hard to believe that we kept the Knicks under 100 points (good thing they missed 20 threes). It just felt like they were dropping 3's, dunking, and getting every offensive rebound... but we got more.

    It's also hard to believe that we had more field goals. If this game were played with 1960's rules, we would have been victorious.

    In the big picture though, we had 3 starters with 5 points or less. We had 4 starters with 3 rebounds or less. The bench was effective from a scoring and rebounding perspective, but we really needed Drummond's athleticism in this one.

    I thought Jerebko's defense on Melo was actually pretty effective. Singler did an OK job too, but Melo just got an assist every time he was shut down (the blame there definitely goes to our other defenders).
  18. BillLaimbeer

    BillLaimbeer All-Star 4x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The fact that Drummond stated he was out of shape and had back issues at the beginning of the season supports the "bringing him along slowly" strategy.
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  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Not slowly enough. Frank is ruining this kid.
  20. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    I cannot stand to see CV on the court even when he "tries" to play defense. Whenever he tries to score and it doesn't go in, he just stands there shaking his head in disbelief or whatever as the other team walks the ball up to catch us on a 5-on-4 fast meandering break.

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