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Discussion in 'March 2015' started by roscoe36, Feb 20, 2015.
Yeah but the context is that he will be getting a max contract.
In that case, I would need to see our entire salary breakout year over year. If I don't think his deal is in the long term best interest of the team I will help him pack (bear in mind I am on the wrong coast and not the sharpest pencil in the drawer)
You? Me? ..same page!
I can't stand Tay. He is simply to boring. I gave it a one quarter then I gave up and just switched to the condensed format of the game. Get that dude and his demeanor outta here!
Even a great player would become a franchise-crippling anchor with the wrong contract. There are plenty of examples: Joe Johnson, Melo, Gilbert Arenas, Kobe. The list goes on and on. Is Moose worth Dwight Howard money? No. I don't think Dwight Howard is worth Dwight Howard money. Here are the salaries (current) of the top paid big men in the league (within the top 50 highest paid in the league): Howard - $21.4M Bosh - $20.6M Griffin - $17.6M Z-Bo - $16.5M LMA - $16M Marc Gasol - $15.8M Kevin Love - $15.7M Brook Lopez - $15.7M David Lee - $15M Roy Hibbert - $14.9M Tyson Chandler - $14.8M Cousins - $14.7M Big Al - $13.5M Nene - $13M Bogut - $12.9M Derrick Favors - $12.9M Noah - $12.7M Ibaka - $12.3M Pekovic - $12.1M David West - $12M Al Horford - $12M Bargnani - $11.5M DeAndre Jordan - $11.4M JaVale McGee - $11.2M Larry Sanders - $11M Looking at that list, I see the market for Moose around $13M. I would be ok with us signing him for something in the $13-15M range. He is still young, and unlike Drummond he is showing improvements YOY. His FT shooting is getting better. He is pretty regularly double-teamed now and he's still scoring at the same rate. And his defense is visibly better. Between him and Drummond, I still think he is the more valuable one.
I think we can agree on this.
Kobe is not franchise crippling. They signed him to that deal for two reasons - 5 championships and because they wanted their team to suck for two years. The Lakers were never going to rebuild on the fly, they had to crash and burn just to reset their contracts (I don't think they care about the draft, that's just the cherry on top). The Kobe deal allows them to virtually clear their books and start from scratch. Neither was Gilbert Arenas' contract crippling - just his actions after signing it! There is no argument that Carmelo's contract is crippling yet and Joe Johnson's contract was crippling in the same way that Rodney Stuckey's contract was crippling - it was a $5m a year overpay. You cannot tell me with a straight face Drummond is not improving year on year.
You got a point about Kobe's contract. But I still think that Arenas' contract was a little too high. Actually, how could I forget about what Orlando gave Rashard Lewis when talking about bloated contracts! And you are correct in calling me out about that Drummond comment. He is also showing progress. Maybe not as much as Moose, but still. Just to be clear, I really think we need to build around those two. There seems to be this recurring sentiment that the two cannot coexist and we need to trade one to get another piece. I'd like us to break the mold and rewrite the standard of how to put together a winner instead. Keep the twin towers. Add better wingers. Swap Tay Prince with Paul George and we have a team that can be a contender for the East.
We need to keep the twin towers and just find someone other than or better than Bulter, Tay and Tolliver. I would rather have Singler than Butler and Tay...wait did I just say that? In fact, I think I would rather have JJ starting at SF than either of the three. As far as Tolliver's value...if he doesn't hit at least 3-4 threes a game, he is a waste. I like his energy, but he never gets that loose ball/board that eludes Dre or Moose and always seems to be on the wrong side of a blocking foul. If we don't need the points, I would like to see Joel Anthony get more PT for the D and the board work. I agree with what TaS said about the Mayor? (Dinwiddee), he still seems to slow things down to a stand still. I mean he played great vs the Wizards on Saturday in the failed comeback, but yesterday as soon as he came in the game near the end of the first and to open the second, the Pelicans went on a 15-2 run and it was because he could not get the rock to these non defensive playing Butler and Tolliver at the right time. Meeks was able to get off, but the tempo of the game seem to change and the speed that was evident in the those first 8-9 minutes of the game never returned even in the third quarter. I would have went with JLiii in the second half instead of Dinweddee.
I thought it would be kind of fun to attempt to evaluate how much power forwards and centers are worth in our league.
I ranked every power forward and center based on eight measures: four regular and four advanced. I asked myself, what are the most important aspects of being a big man to me? Efficient low post scoring and rim protection. Regular: FG%, Rebounds, Blocks, and Points. Advanced: Player Efficiency Rating (PER), Wins Shared Per 48 Minutes (WS/48), Defensive Box Plus Minus (DBPM), and Wins Above Replacement Player (WARP). I took the top 50 most highly paid PFs and Centers and gave the best ranked big man the highest salary. Here are my results:
I also ran the statistics for career averages for top 50 PF and Cs if anyone wants to see those results. Basically, it said Duncan should get paid way more than everybody else...
Don't forget durability, which is something that so many bigs have trouble with (yao ming for instance).
Good point. How would you measure that? Games missed in career for injury? Dwayne Wade has played a lot of games and seasons, but he is also injury prone. Duncan would be the most durable off the top of my head, but he's old. He won't be durable forever. Is there a way to project durability?
You could look at their last 5 years and see if there is a trend in percentage of games missed.
Maybe instead of stats per game player played, use stats per game team played.
It never ceases to amaze me how quickly we get tired of our toys and want new toys. We've got two of the better big men in the game and we want to trade them for draft picks. There are a whole lot of garbage players and ex-players out there that were drafted in the first round, folks.
Drummond for Wilson Chandler?
Problem with our 'twin towers', they have never bully their opponents into foul trouble. I remember back in the days where The Bad Boys will always start games by going inside to the Buddha. With his post up game, he can either get points or get opponent to foul him. Same goes to the Jordan era Bulls where the always start the game by going inside to Cartwright. With our 'twin tower' tandem, we should be getting our opponents' bigs into foul trouble almost every night. Instead, we always have Dre who will get into foul troubles.
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