1. Football Picks Survivor is done for 2014. Congrats to billlaimbeer from The Pistons Forum

New Orleans Hornets Jan. 17th, 7:30 PM

Discussion in 'January 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,906
    Likes Received:
    869
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Boy you 2 sure are missing some really good comments right now. 'Scoe this is one of the best Piston Discussions we've had around here in years. Think about it, we're not talking about some Pie In The Sky players who some fans seem to think can go from DNP-CD's to Finals MVP's in the same season. We're debating whether AI or Rip starts or even stays, we're deabting on whether we're really going to move foward or keep playing the same old ball. SOme folk like the old days (and thats fine) some like you and I have grown weary of the CORE and are ready for overhaul. It's really exciting, U-2 should relax and enjoy it!!!!
     
  2. KGREG

    KGREG All-Star

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    4,906
    Likes Received:
    869
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Saginaw, Michigan
    Excellent point. Since Sheed's return teams seem to concede that shot to him now. They've decided that it's better for Sheed to launch trey's then to allow Stuck and AI to carve up their defense going to the hole.
     
  3. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Untrue. They are playing small ball because Joe made this trade. The stature of AI as a player dictates that he is a starter and plays alot of minutes. So does Rip. So does Tay. Three starters who are used to playing the whole game.

    Raxrets, don't you dare make AI the scapegoat of this mess. It's not his system, he's trying to work with the new system. Oh, AI isn't scoring. Oh, AI isn't making plays. Oh, AI isn't isolating to the basket like we want. Oh, AI isn't passing the ball and he is using too much time dribbling.

    Can't have it both ways man. AI is not the scapegoat. He was a known entity.

    Blame Joe if you dont' like AI's game and his attempt at playing our game, whatever the hell it is.
     
  4. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,844
    Likes Received:
    3,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Another game where we made more FG's, but lost at the FT line. The strange thing is that we only committed 2 more fouls than NO, but they made 12 more free throws than us.

    So, we were +6 from the floor and -12 from the line.

    In the 4th quarter, there were a few key events that really hurt us. 1) the backcourt violation/ 8 second call, 2) AI's baseline drive and turnover leading to a NO fastbreak dunk, 3) Chris Paul's accidental bank-shot that he had to force over Dyess, and 4) the bad foul call on Stuckey when CP3 drove and tried to get contact.

    Besides the FT differential, the other important stat to look at these days is the offensive rebounding #'s. With SB, these are our main 2 weaknesses. The good news was that in tonight's game, we actually won the rebounding battle thanks to Sheed on the defensive glass and Dyess and Maxiell going crazy on the offensive glass. 17 offensive boards! Is that our highest of the season maybe? Dyess and Maxiell ripped down 10 offensive rebounds in only 42 combined minutes. Tonight's game was another example of how hard Dyess is playing in the 4th quarters. He's absolutely possessed and goes to work in the paint. It's a little embarrassing to see Sheed chucking from deep while Dyess is laying his body on the line to clean up the messes. And speaking of Sheed, who needs a "heat check" after inadvertantly banking in a 3-pointer? That was lame. What about that shot made him think he was going to make the next one?

    Back to Max. The job that Maxiell did raises the obvious questions here... why the DNP's? And why not stick with him in tonight's game when he's having a great rebounding night and scoring from point blank time after time after snatching other Pistons' misses?

    Max, Amir, and AA were the only Pistons in the + tonight, and their minutes were all snipped. Foul trouble was not a factor and doesn't even matter with Max and Amir since they never play more than 30 no matter what their fouls look like. If one fouls out, just play the other. That is the luxury of having 2 of the same guy.


    And just a few thoughts on Rip. His supposed inability to create his own shot is a little overstated at this point I believe. Rip showed a lot of versatility tonight. He hit 2 three-pointers, both contested. He his 3 mid-range jump shots. He got to the rim 3 times, once on a drive, once on a fast break where he kept it himself, and once on a great slash to get the inbound pass. He also went to the line 3 times for 5 FT's.

    Sheed- 8 free throws in his last 13 games. He must not have the energy anymore to play the right way.


    Not sure what the SB stats look like, but I'm guessing this is going to be one of the uglier ones when the #'s come out.
     
  5. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,844
    Likes Received:
    3,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    OK, here's the final tally.

    SB- 22:16, -7
    BB- 25:44, +1

    MC only ran over the 14 minute mark by 8:16 tonight. Getting better. Of course, AI's knee was injured, so maybe it wasn't by choice.

    This is like a broken record.
     
  6. The Palace Artest

    The Palace Artest First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Messages:
    992
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Las Vegas... for now
    Please don't leave.

    EDIT: On another note, it looks like some people here really need to step away from their TV. Just a token very few people, and its reflecting in peoples' posts.. I won't say anything else. I'm doing it right now and it's doing me wonders. Well, today I had to work, so I was bailed out, I guess. You guys are not going to see any changes, because Dumars doesn't have the balls to either fire Curry or call the shots, it seems.

    For this year, it's hopeless. Bad news is that we'll be watching this sinking ship all year. Good news is that Michael Curry will be a one-and-done.
     
  7. aurora

    aurora Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    1,246
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    I miss seeing all these guys play more minutes. I love watching AA play defense. Who cares if Amir fouls out. We need his particular talent, if it comes right now with fouls we need to get over it. We need exactly what he has to offer. Rebounding and his sheer youth on the court makes me feel like we might improve in a funny way.

    JMax was exciting tonight. If we gave our youth half the opportunity we give the vets...we'd at least have the posssibility of a future, even this season. It's not that I don't like our old core. I just really like seeing when these guys come into the game how they handle it, how they do. And even if we lose, it's more interesting.
     
  8. max

    max All-Star

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    7,482
    Likes Received:
    492
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    my bunker in the Carribbean
    Sorry if I left anyone out. To me this games not worth much of a summary. Start designing better plays in crunch-time where you get high percentage shots. Or better yet - find a lineup that works so we are not always scrambling late in games.

    That about sums it up. If Stucky is not going to play like Stucky anyway, then he should go back to the bench. AI can play the point. Himat did the research on page 7 if anyone still does not believe that AI has successfully played the point before. He was playing point when we played them in the 2nd round of 03.

    We just did not give it enough time. It would have came around eventually - at least by now anyway. During the game when AI is at the point they look a lot better now.

    Mistake or not whats done is done. 2nd point is a lot of thats on the coach. Perhaps he is telling him to defer.

    So true. Its just not productive talking about the should have would have and could have's.

    Perhaps Sheed is starting to slow down. At any rate when jacks up a 3 or whatever is it his fault if he is just playing the options.

    No we did not give AI at the point enough of a chance. On Sheed/Dyess. They were the starters last year - was it always a mistake?
     
  9. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,569
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    tartu
    our back and forth arguing reflects very well floating ship in ocean - it has no compass, no capitain, crew points at each other but it does not help.

    Situation may be as well similar in Detroit Pistons lockerroom.

    :fencing::starwars:
     
  10. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,609
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    a cave

    :p_welldone:
     
  11. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    2,569
    Likes Received:
    178
    Location:
    tartu
    Star Jones, question is not whether AI or anybody is "volume" scorer or whatever, question is: does current "Pistons configuration" enable to use AI's abilities in the best way?

    My answer is: AI can be only AI because this is the only way to use AI effectively.

    there is no point to try to mold AI to something "half-Rip" or "half-playmaker-shooter". Why this team should need something like half-Rip when they already have one true Rip! Oh, and this roster already contains one half-playmaker-shooter.

    AI playing some Rip's plays is fun to watch but it really is not his game.
     
  12. basketbills

    basketbills All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,001
    Likes Received:
    1,207
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Howard Stubb's garage
    This is one of the best game threads we have had in here.

    I'll admit I scoffed at Star Jones moving AI to 1 and Rodney to 2 but there is a lot of logic behind it...the more I think of it.

    I really think we have the pieces that can come together at some point after Rip is traded.
     
  13. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,759
    Likes Received:
    2
    So are you telling me you prefer AI starting at SG along with Rip and Stuckey instead of having AI at PG and either Rip or Stuckey at the 2?

    And by the way there is no way AI is going to the bench. He is starting because he is the best player on the team. The only way he goes to the bench is if he tells the coach "I am going to the bench."
     
  14. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Messages:
    4,262
    Likes Received:
    446
    Location:
    Ann Arbor/Chicago/Walland, TN
    Oh my...

    The team finally comes out with a little bit of a chip on its shoulder and still loses. When you get outcoached by Byron Scott...

    If Posey played against Detroit every night he'd be a lock for the hall. Pretty sad when your entire team, and coaching staff, is so intimidated by one guy that they can't play against him. He's playing the two guard in the 4th and evidently the Pistons have no one who can take advantage of that and chase him to the bench.

    Max plays his best game in weeks and all it gets him is dumped to the bench after a mere 18 minutes. I thought AI was having his best game in weeks and all it got him was a trip to the bench when the game was on the line. And AA didn't scratch.

    It's boring to keep saying it, but this team can't win as currently configured.
     
  15. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,844
    Likes Received:
    3,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Every single one of those guys on that list shoots 3-pointers, and most of them while they are heavily guarded.

    When you look at their eFG%'s/ efficiency, AI is clearly behind.

    Szczerbiak- .524
    Allen- .522
    K Martin- .519
    Redd- .507
    Lebron- .501
    Wade- .489
    Arenas- .488
    Kobe- .487
    Carter- .486
    Rip- .471

    Chucky Atkins- .493
    Smush Parker- .494

    AI- .452
    Stuck- .447 (found someone lower!)
     
  16. Star Jones

    Star Jones First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    TaShawn, you can crunch numbers like a trash compactor. I'll be honest with you, I've never gotten into +/- or eFG% or some of the "newer" ways to measure players.

    I even look at shooting percentages sideways and here's why:

    If you go 3 for 8, that's 38% and that's bad. But, if you make one more shot, that's 50% and that's good!

    If you go 5 for 10, that's 50% and that's good. But, hey, you still missed five shots like the guy above and he stunk up the joint.

    But, then again, neither one of you are as good as the other guy that missed five shots when he went 10 for 15, because he shot 67%.

    Oh, and that stud who went 15 for 20 is clearly not getting enough shots, because how does the guy that is shooting 75%, not get more than 20 shots a game?

    It's a shame that the team lost by ten points, the equivalent of five two point shots.

    Shooting percentages are simple math, but I don't believe it's simple basketball. It actually kind of irks me that one or two shots can define a player's night, especially if the game wasn't watched as closely as the box score.

    I was listening to Bill Walton during a game once and he said: it's very easy to shoot 50% when you only take four shots. I'll take the guy that's willing to put the team on his back, no matter what the numbers say.

    I won't sit with Bill in his teepee, but I'm with him in this instance.
     
  17. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,844
    Likes Received:
    3,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    We have a guy who has shot more shots than just about anybody, maybe the most FGA's of any current player in the league? He has the 3rd highest ppg in NBA history based on the pure volume of shots he takes per game. His efficiency isn't anywhere close to guys like Kobe, who take ridiculously bad shots himself from time to time. And we're not even getting into defense here, we're talking bout the best part of Ai's game.

    There is a lot of data here, including the performances of AI's teams. For a sure HOF'er, his teams haven't had much success, even in his prime. Denver was willing to trade him straight up for a guy with half his salary... and they are extremely happy with the results.

    I don't dislike AI, but have to point out that he misses a lot of shots, with a lot of them being unwise and forced.
     
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2006
    Messages:
    6,695
    Likes Received:
    1,657
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Parts Unknown
    Do you think he is taking unwise and forced shot here? I don't.
     
  19. Star Jones

    Star Jones First Round Draft Pick

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll take that. I still think he's underrated as a shooter, but I'll let the numbers make the final decision.
     
  20. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2005
    Messages:
    17,844
    Likes Received:
    3,254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Chicaaago
    Well besides Herrmann, AI has the worst FG% on the team. Besides Will Bynum, he has the worst 3P FG% on the team.

    Since I know that AI is one of the best mid-range jump shooters in basketball, I can only conclude that his shot selection has been bad. Based on observation, I would also say that his shot selection has been horrid. There are a lot of forced fade-away, double arcing prayers being hoisted up by him.

    The thought was that he'd finally have other weapons surrounding him here in Detroit and it would make his life a lot easier. That hasn't been the case at all.
     

Share This Page