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New Orleans Hornets Jan. 17th, 7:30 PM

Discussion in 'January 2009' started by Dlev59, Jan 14, 2009.

  1. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Theoretically, losing in rebounds and defense in SB is outweighed by higher scoring. WHERE IS THAT HIGH SCORING IN OUR SB???

    :mad:

    Are you aware that PLAYMAKER ( his role is to make plays first, scoring is secondary) Billups scores more per game than SHOOTING GUARD (his primary role is to shoot ) Iverson!?!?!
     
  2. AI IS GOD

    AI IS GOD Second Round Draft Pick

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    This team is 28th worst in scoring, god helps.
     
  3. Star Jones

    Star Jones First Round Draft Pick

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    Are you aware that Chauncey has free reign over the Nuggets and Allen not so much with the Pistons? Do you really want to compare the two when it's apples versus apples, because you don't need to look any further than last year.
     
  4. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    I am sitting here in awe that Jason Maxiel was taken out of the game and that we went back to the pair of Sheed/Dyess. He was the only one playing that pick and roll with Paul successfully. Seriously i have no words.

    I'm going to try to focus on some positive. That 3rd quarter was a thing of beauty offensively. We had the return of floor spacing and execution!! That was the Rip i know and love. Beautiful passing and making shots; Sticking to his strength and creating off the screens. He did a good job on his man for the most part.

    AI really needed to calm down. He was having a meltdown, and at that point in the game he was needed on the floor. His defense was a mixed bag this game. He did OK in the 1st and then it was downhill from there. The main problem is it seems there's always someone having to shadow his man or a switch that screws things up.

    However, in the 4th with Max, he would have been effective enough that hopefully his contributions on offense would make up for it. And he was really making the effort to stick to Paul. That drive to the basket was beautiful. I want to see more of that from him instead of those shots from the middle of the floor. On the downside, the floor spacing went to hell again with him on the floor. I don't know why it looks so crowded.

    When Stuck came back, he deferred again. I'm beginning to think it's not by design and just him. Although i'm not going to entirely blame him for his defense on CP. While it wasn't great, the fact that Dice was the other defender caused most of the trouble. Like AI, he would have held his own if Max was the one playing it with him.

    The game was uneven as a whole in LARGE part due to our ridiculous line-ups. The encouraging part is that Rip/AI didn't look half bad for part of the 4th. The discouraging part is that 3rd quarter looked much better. It was a replica (IMO, a better one) of when Rip was out.

    It's awful that it comes to the point that when one of our SG's get injured it's better for the team.

    And why can't we ever try Amir/Max together ? Is there a law against it?

    It looks like Stuck might be coming back to earth a little bit. Very little AA this game. IMO, there were two stretches he should have been on CP3.

    Unfortunately, it semes the AA/win correlation is stronger than all other things LOL.

    Overall, there was no shortage of effort in the least and we still lost. The personnel is being used incorrectly and if it was there's still a chance it might not work. It's almost All-Star break.

    I think i ran out of positive half way through the post.
     
  5. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Why AI was brought here??? score, score,and yes, more score. Since he is below average on D, only scoring can justify is playing time. AI has never had any other role than scoring, yeah, coaches have tried him as playmaker but he is not that type.

    AI should score ESPECIALLY in SB because of MC has explained that SB is only there for maximizing scoring effort from two SGs, SF and half PG

    THEY ARE PLAYING SB ONLY BECAUSE OF AI.
     
  6. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    If we account for possessions per game/pace, i wonder what how the difference in scoring really breaks down to be between last year's Nuggets and last year's Pistons. Is it really who has free reign?
     
  7. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Well we are officially an also-ran-middle-of-the-pac-team that will be lucky to get the 7th seed. We can hope that a key trade could make us stronger to possibly pull a first round upset..

    Five losses in a row now and coincidentally five since Sheed came back and 4 since the grim ripper came back leading the small ball.

    I only saw the 4th quarter, so cannot comment on how the boys look like they had probably their best scoring third qtr in awhile...but then the dredded 4th qtr collapse again. Can't score and can't stop anybody in the fourth. What the heck has happen to our free throw game this past week?? Not only can we get to the line, but we can make them when we get there?? 3-11 last night 5-13 tonight? Stuckey never got to the line in either game???

    In addition to the 9-0 run that was given up to start the 4th, the key to this loss may have been the spot where AI lazilly walked the ball up the floor and was called with a 8 second violation with score tied 81-81...after that AI argued and was taken out of the game and we crumpled on the offensive end with Rip missing a jumper from the side instead of driving and then three straight three point shots by Tay, Sheed and Sheed.

    I have not been on my computer today, but have there been any soundbites from Joe regarding how he thinks we are doing?? Did he give MC the proverbial vote of confidence so he can be out of here in the next 10 days???


    Since I kind of expected a loss I am actually more upset about the Buckeyes upsetting Michiigan at Crisler arena tonight then this Piston loss.
     
  8. Star Jones

    Star Jones First Round Draft Pick

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    Apparently, he wasn't brought here to score, score, and yes, more score because the offense isn't designed to do that. Detroit's insistence on having everyone shoot the same amount of shots, give or take a few, does not lend itself to a scorer.

    Unless the scorer is the PG and the ball starts in his hands at the beginning of the play. That's how you get a certain #3 putting up 40 and 38 point games in a weeks time.

    Not even the top three point shooter of all time regularly gets 30 points on 10 shots. He's averaging 15 shots a game. That breaks down to under four shots a quarter.

    The offense isn't designed for him (or anyone else) to get many trips to the free throw line either. This isn't an offense that places scoring as a high priority, so there shouldn't be much shock over the lack of scoring.

    All I know is the last time I merely glanced at the numbers, every Nugget from last year has had a drop in shooting % and points per game. Carmelo is shooting a career low in %. This is with the great Chauncey running the show.

    19 shots a game to go along with 10 trips to the line go a long way in dropping 26 ppg. Having the ball in your hands enough to take 19 shots along with 10 FTAs and 7 assists go a long way in looking like a guy that will never age versus one that "suddenly seems to have lost a step."

    Free reign A.I. versus Deferring A.I. is something that Michael Curry will have to decide that he wants. Along with many other things.
     
  9. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    Star Jones , that exactly is the problem: AI needs may touches to be effective. Pistons style - everyone gets only small share - is not for AI and he is not capable of changing his style, I'm afraid.
     
  10. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    I'm not sure how you can say that. During the win streak, he was playing as a complimentary player no problem.

    The problem tonight, is the same problem as yesterday, same problem Wednesday last.

    We have one too many small players, and we insist upon playing an unbalanced lineup.

    People get ticked off in the fourth, but we used to beat teams in the 2nd and 3rd too you know.

    Just gotta keep the heat on Curry and hope he adjusts.
     
  11. Star Jones

    Star Jones First Round Draft Pick

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    He is and was effective in the sense that his presence on the floor allows Rodney and Tayshaun to become unbelievably effective. Earlier in the season, when he was practically frozen out of the offense, the team was essentially playing four on five.

    As he became more included, Rodney's amount of open shots increased and the distance that his defender was normally found to be, also increased because they were trying to double up on Allen. Same with Tayshaun.

    Let me know when Richard draws a consistent double team with the starters. Heck, the starters looked as if they barely wanted to set screens for Richard in the first quarter.

    I will be very interested to see what happens to Rodney's shooting % next year if Allen isn't in Detroit. I've found that it's real easy for teammates to pout and complain when they have to play with Allen, but very few of them come back and admit just how much easier it was when he's gone.

    You won't see many other Pistons making Kwame Brown look functional.
     
  12. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    during winning streak AI took avg 18 shots and made 40% of those. and most of his shots were pure individual effort: typical AI.
     
  13. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    Yeah, and we won games.

    First, I would like to go back to winning, so we can argue about pointless stuff like shooting %s and FGA.
     
  14. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    There's a difference between an elite scorer and a high volume scorer. Unfortunately, AI's beginning to look like the latter. You shouldn't need the offense to be designed around you or have to take a majority of the shots on your team to put up numbers if you're supposed to be that talented. His shooting % has always been below par even in DEN. It's a troubling sign. There are games where he takes a high number of shots (like he did during the time we had alot of injured players) and he puts up points because of that but he's still shooting a bad %. It's taking him too many shots to get to a certain number.

    I don't expect him to shoot 5-10 every night or 50%. That's just too much to ask of any player, but he needs to be more efficient. I could care less if he takes 16-18 shots a game if he's not going 6-16. In terms of Stuckey, it is easier for him to "get his" b/c he plays PG, but at the same time he can play PG. Letting AI initiate the offense constantly isn't an option. IMO, it's just a bad fit all around.

    I do agree with you that at times he's not put into a position that plays to his strenghts in terms of some of the plays that we run for Rip being run for him, etc. but alot of those jump shots he's taking he's settling for. I want to believe that he chooses not go to the rim as much and not that can't do it anymore.

    The main point is i don't think there's shock at his lack of scoring, but since we are not winning and his defense is lacking, some people are at least expecting him to make up for that offensively especially when like rax mentioned in large part this line-up change is for him. And i'm not really sure how you design an offense around AI. In past years that just seems to be letting him just shoot to his heart's content while surrounding him with defenders. That won't work here.

    ----------------

    The Nuggets were until recently playing games that were lower scoring and much slower than previous years. As for Carmelo hasn't he been injured all year? I'll reserve judgement on that b/c i could've have sworn he was playing with some elbow/wrist problem.

    I don't think you can compare CB/AI in terms of how much they are scoring. But if you were there are two problems with that; Chauncey scored alot in DET too, and he wasn't dominating the team's offense in terms of # of shots. And i have to double check but i don't think he's averaging all that many more shots as AI in DEN either. Looking at their game logs, it seems like there are outliers that really muck up the avg number.

    You could argue that CB has free reign to dictate his shots, but he can play PG. AI is not a PG. So i'm not sure what the solution would be short of having 2 of our best offensive players get injured and surrounding him by non scorers. That's not a very successful long term strategy.
     
  15. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    AI is 37th all time in assists, 44th in assists per game.
     
  16. raxrets

    raxrets Team Captain

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    We won because of AI was AI( it was 1 of many reasons why they won, of course) not Rip's half-clone, what he has to be now.
     
  17. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    We both know that doesn't make him a PG.
     
  18. roscoe36

    roscoe36 All-Star Administrator

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    You're right. Even though he has been first team all NBA as a PG, and played PG most of his career, traded for a PG, from a team where he was playing PG, led a US Olympic team as the PG, and is one of the all time leaders in assists, which is usually a stat dominated by PGs, he's not a PG.

    Hey look, :flypig:
     
  19. himat

    himat Bench Warmer

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    He can play the PG position but a lot of times it does not even look like we have good plays to run. Anyone else notice how our offense has no execution what so ever?
     
  20. lpgrl26

    lpgrl26 Bench Warmer

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    He played next to Eric Snow in PHI at SG when they were successful, and Anthony Carter played PG in DEN while AI played SG again. Both moves had to be made because AI couldn't run the team which is kinda a crucial part of being a point guard. AI was not playing PG when we traded for him.

    AI started at PG here and Stuck had to be put in the line-up b/c he couldn't do it. I'm seeing a recurring theme here. And it has nothing to do with flying pigs.
     

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