NBA Finals - Magic vs. Lakers

Discussion in '2009 Playoffs' started by roscoe36, Jun 4, 2009.

  1. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    If Kobe's elbow to Nelson's face is called, the Lakers lose and it's tied up. Such a fine line.

    Magic are done.
  2. detteam

    detteam All-Star

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    Nelson should have not been brought back this series and megabucks disappeared tonight.

    Since its over I decided to look at salaries. Bynum got extended to $12.5M next season ramping up to a team option $16.5M in 12/13...? oof!
  3. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    The Magic must have the lowest basketball IQ in the league, certainly of the playoff teams. Bringing Nelson in takes it down another notch.

    I don't think Pietrus plays the next game. That was a suspendable foul.
  4. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    That would have been a horrible call to make. No way he threw an elbow there.
  5. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    It was a desperation foul made by a team trying to save its' series. It seems we complain on one hand that the players are overpaid and don't care about the games and then turn away and are appalled when they compete.

    When Kobe threw the elbow at Howard in the 2nd Q after getting tangled up I found it telling that no tech was called. It seems to shoot down the theory that the poor refs get caught up in the excitement and get carried away handing our flagrants and techs as was the case in conference play. It seems that they are instructed to call it the way they do.
  6. Nemo

    Nemo Pun Master Forum Donor

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    This series makes me think of Pistons vs Celtics...ECF...:(
  7. pistonsloyalist

    pistonsloyalist First Round Draft Pick

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    Right. If those smaller players decide to foul Howard in a way that prevents him from making a basket, they can be pretty confident they will succeed. Howard will get his two free throws -- but will not get a bucket and one. Shaq and Lebron are able to fight off those kinds of fouls, and get the basket and a free throw.
  8. dba

    dba All-Star Moderator 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying, but it's pretty hard for me to reconcile Piertrus' foul with competing hard. It wasn't a basketball play, it was a two handed shot with all his strength to the back of a player who was already dunking the ball. He wasn't trying to block the shot, wasn't trying to wrap the player up and prevent a shot. What I saw was a pretty blatant attempt to knock a guy into the third row and hurt him.
  9. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Then they should have called a foul on Nelson for head butting Kobe's elbow. There was enough contact there to knock the average person out cold.

    This is a league where you can normally foul somebody with a feather duster.
  10. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Ariza & Fisher won this one for LA. Ariza made some very very clutch plays. He hit that 3 as 24-second clock expired within the last 2 minutes or so. He also had a key offensive board.
  11. Walter

    Walter All-Star Forum Donor

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    Exactly.


    BTW, what a choke-job by Pietrus at the end of regulation. Granted, it never should've come to that shot, but man. That was poor execution.

    This is over next game. No more games in Staples center.
  12. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Some more takes

    The Magic could be up 3-1 if they knew how to hit FT's and clutch shots at the end.

    Foul by Pietrus was more of a frustration foul on Gasol as he was celebrating a punctuation dunk with 2 seconds left when the game was pretty much over. He probably won't get suspended.

    Over playing Nelson in game 2 and game 4 was the biggest mistake of the Van Dumpy's coaching. Second biggest mistake was not fouling the player who caught the entry pass or tackling Fisher before he took his shot.

    Kobe will win MVP even though he played terrible in games 2, 3 and 4. (took 31 shots to get 32 points last night). Other players (Fish, Ariza, Odom and Gasol bailed him out in games 2 and 4).

    Dwight Howard will have the longest summer of all the Magic thinking about those missed free throws. His penchant for making the one bounce dribble every time he received the ball gave every Laker an opportunity to stop, mug and foul him before he went up.

    Will Pat Ewing teach him his fade away jumper or will he remain a one dimensional player with his bounce and mini skyhook.

    SVG will have a long summer too as his brother will criticize him for bringing back Nelson to early and choosing not foul an "experience" team with 11 seconds left.
  13. lapiston

    lapiston Team Captain

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    Good post, Dre. Stan is just an ordinary coach. He would really get criticized if he were the Piston coach.

    The Lakers are good but not this great team the media portrays. (Breen said "unbeatable," then almost unbeatable.) Kobe is maxed out and they are barely winning. But a win is a win--can't take anything away from them.

    The Magic just are not ready: Howard, Stan, the point guard position, free throws down the stretch and role players.

    Two good teams in a watered-down by salary cap league.
  14. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Lets not forget to take into account that Ronnie Nunn's interpretation of foul/no foul is heavily weighed on whether the offensive or defensive player occupies the other players space.

    Biomechanically there is no way Kobe can hold the ball in front of him and pivot to make the overhead pass to Fisher more than 50% of the entire world knew was an option without his elbows being extended.

    It is feasible for the refs to view Nelson as running into elbows he knew were going to be there (and then flopping) in an attempt to get a call.

    I would have initially called it an offensive foul myself, but upon further review I highly doubt Jameer goes down like that if Kobe hits him with that elbow during a fight. It was a flop IMO.
  15. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    Yup.

    I think that can be said for alot of coaches that have been sought after by Pistons fans.

    I do, however, respect his penchant for taking due blame squarely on the chin. Unfortunately thats all he's been doing lately.
  16. CloudWalker

    CloudWalker Bench Warmer

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    I hope not.

    I don't know of a single pundit that wasn't singing Jameer's praises and telling Skip to shut up before the Finals began. JVG and Mark Jackson were leading the pack.

    Now the media is lining up to declare it a mistake.

    Hopefully Jeff isn't going to be like that.
  17. LA Dre

    LA Dre All-Star 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    JVG did an excellent job of trying to stay impartial, but you could tell by the frustration in his voice when [STRIKE]dangling mouth guard[/STRIKE] Nelson gave Deep Fishing all the space and time in the world or as someone said daring him to take the three. Everyone in [STRIKE]Amway Arena[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]SoCal[/STRIKE], [STRIKE]Facebook, [/STRIKE], the world knew the Fish was going to take the three ball shot. Why Nelson didn't or why Van Stump-me decided not to call for a foul is beyond comprehension...I mean once Howard missed his FT's he should have been calling and making the foul himself, but he was probably still reeling from his choke job while Fisher was already getting high fives going back to the bench.
  18. Ernie the Slow Adult

    Ernie the Slow Adult All-Star Forum Donor

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    I agree but what he was doing was a last ditch effort to save the series from going 3-1. It was a desperation move to save their only chance of winning the series.
  19. TaS

    TaS All-Star Forum Donor

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    Just because it didn't work out doesn't mean that it was a bad strategy. The reason that I like SVG was because he at least had a thesis and articulated it well afterword + wasn't afraid to admit that he could have been wrong. He's like the anti MC.

    With that much time left, intentionally fouling would have turned the game into a free throw contest. Hedo had already missed 4 FT's in the 4th quarter and Dwight was obviously off. The Magic were shooting 60% from the line as a team and the Lakers were shooting 88%. You also run the risk of having the Lakers anticipate the foul and initiate a shooting motion from 3-point range as it is happening. In addition, inbounding the ball for the Magic is not exactly automatic. so you run the risk of flat out losing after you intentionally foul Fisher and then turn it over to Ariza on the inbound.

    The way that the Magic played it, the Lakers were going to get off a mildly to moderately contested 3-pointer. The odds of any player not named Kobe of hitting that shot is probably around 30% or less (Fisher's crunch-time 3-point shooting percentage is .286 for example). The Lakers were 7 for 22 (.318) on the night from 3-point range and a lot of those were wide open. And even if the Lakers happened to make the shot, the odds were decent that Orlando would have time left to win the game on a final possession.

    They could have easily screwed it up or won the game with either strategy. The difference between the 2 strategies is marginal, which is why there is no real consensus on the way to handle it. SVG figured that since his team was terrible from the FT line, that tipped the balance in favor of the "not fouling" strategy. He just got bamboozled by fate.
  20. jammertime

    jammertime Starter 1x Fantasy Champion Forum Donor

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    Agreed. That wasn't a hard foul to prevent a bucket. That was a frustration cheap shot to the back of a defenceless player.

    There was no way that he was going to prevent that basket, and he knew it.

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